College debt and how to reduce cost

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

If you want to succeed in college a terrible strategy is to consider your classes useless and irrelevant, even if they seem to be. You play the game, you do well, and doors open up. It’s really that simple. If you go in thinking “I don’t need this” things will fall apart quickly. I’ve seen it happen a lot, including with myself.

there is a HUGE amount of wisdom in this. applies to so many situations. those who whine about 'why?' don't understand this and i agree, they tend to fail.

[fintstone]

I always found a way not to pay for those "useless" classes...that way I did not feel like I wasted my money. I was able to test out of most of them as I had pretty much all the electives in elementary school (most to a greater depth than the 100-level college course). The rest I took for free (after exceeding a full load, any additional classes/hrs were free). They were always an easy A, but really did not provide any deeper understanding.

I just ate at McDonalds. They are hiring and practically begging for employees. They had a sign on every table.

They offer $15hr, a flexible schedule, free college tuition, a 401K with matching fund, free meals and friend & family referral bonuses.

I flipped burgers starting at $1.60hr. and paid my own way (didn't live with my parents or take any money from them after leaving high school). I was still able to pay for college (although I had to be frugal). Eventually I joined the military to get batter pay and benefits including tuition assistance. My brother worked his way through school similarly (flipping burgers) but lived at home until grad school.. Lots of folks managed to get through college without any of those benefits. I really don't see why anyone would have any trouble going to school with an employer that offered such a great deal as McDs.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

Every pathway to employment I can think of involves playing some stupid game, often for a while. Failure to complete boring stuff is not exactly what employers are looking for.

But how many put you that far in debt? And it's not about something being boring. It's about it being necessary in your field. As for what hoops people jump through today for employment, I wouldn't know. I haven't worked for someone else since I was in my late 20's. I view everything, as I mentioned, from a ROI point of view. I'm glad my daughter went to college and is now working towards her Masters degree in nutrition. I just don't know how important bowling was in helping to create a proper meal plan for a person with diabetes.

[cabmandone]

You're the exception... not the rule. Those "games" tend to put many in debt.
"About 1 in 5 Americans hold student loans. More than half of those 45 million people with federal student loans have $20,000 or less to pay, with about a third of all borrowers owing less than $10,000. Seven percent of people with federal debt owe more than $100,000."

[rockfan4]

I think you have a real opportunity now, with the shortage of healthcare workers.

My wife is a RN at a Nursing home, she has a 2 year degree. Several of her co-workers have come and gone, getting 2 year RN degrees from the local tech school, then working there while they finished their BSN, and then moved on. Prior to the current situation, the local hospitals would only hire you as a nurse, or many other jobs, if you had a 4 year degree. Accreditation was the reason given. I'm not discounting the other reasons given in this thread. I'm familiar with the hiring at one our medical centers, and I know they've relaxed their hiring requirements recently. Now, for some jobs, you take the job, and sign an agreement that you'll earn your bachelor degree within the next 5-6 years. They also have what they call a Tuition Investment Program, where they'll help with your tuition if you're pursuing a degree relevant to your job.

Locally, there's now free CNA training, and the same Med Center has started a CNA to MA program, free.

Now I know you don't live near me, but this can't be the only company doing this.

[Racerbvd]

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

$0, I never took out a student loan. I went into college with some money from parting out 944s and a lot of parental help. I wasn’t that into it and suffered from a habit of too much complaining and not enough doing. Dropped down to part time status for a while, did some real estate with partners, got into grey market sales on Amazon which eventually died out as a concept but left me with a nice pile to go back to school with and finish my bachelors in economics. The month after graduating I started my own brand on Amazon which has been great, although I’m currently handing over the reins to it and have started a new corporation.

How many are lucky like you or should I say had a 944 to part out. They have a bus pass, not a 944 forget real estate investment. The only real estate they see are the big buildings from the window of a bus going to school or the houses their mother has to clean for someone to make rent. So many have parents that are working min wage jobs and they too are just surviving. Those college kids try like hell to fend for themselves when it comes to money, just so they can eat. I was in the same situation except my parents didn't throw me out of the house and allow me to start working out of their garage building cabinets to make a few bucks.

Once out of college, I was a shop teacher for a few years. I had this little girl in my architectural class (got her really excited in architecture and construction) who was accepted to Cal Poly's architectural school. Brilliant student from El Salvador. Qualify for few grants, and scholarships but still had to pay 3500 bucks per year. Parents were flat broke, living in a one bedroom apt with 5 people. She just can't afford to go so ended up in a community college. Tell her underwater basket weaving is important and that she had to pay more just so she can learn something or be "Well rounded". Yeah, its for her own good. I can't argue that it isn't good for her liberal education but at what cost?

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Byron, you are so right about that. Some of the private tech school aren't exactly cheap. Why aren't they making noise there? I am sure they can't and don't have time to btich about LGBTxxxx BS there.

[red 928]

I had to take lots of those "non-major" classes when
I was younger and I pretended to absorb all that they
wished me to
but I just remembered the credits, not the programming

And I worked my way through
no loans

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

Yeah, I’ve definitely been very fortunate. But if I was 18 and had nothing but an admissions letter to a top-notch school I’d do it and finance what I had to.

Under the current system she would qualify for student loans unless she was in the country illegally. Maybe not back then, I don’t know.

As you may recall from your college days, prerequisites to take required core classes can be quite deep. It’s not uncommon to need to take 5 classes in order to even register for the late-stage classes. So there’s only about 3 or 4 classes per semester you can chip away at that are core requirements. You need more than that to have enough credits to graduate so stuff like the proverbial underwater basketweaving fills in. It’s a 4-year deal whether you have to take UWBW or not.

My main point is see the forest through the trees and invest in yourself if the end result seems worth it. And if you’re going to invest in yourself don’t sit around thinking how stupid it is.

Agreed. We all have to take those GE classes and I still believe then and now that they add value to to one's general education. My beef is with the school admin or whoever involved in adding in more and more of these classes each semester like my required 500 level art class? My biggest complain is mandatory doming for some school's (now many) incoming freshmen and even sophomore. I am trying like hell to understand this. Poor students now must get loans so they can live and experience dormitory life? Whereas a few can rent an apt, split the cost and save?

BTW, she holds a green card and legal.

Its easier said then done coming from us when we have had well paying jobs and the experiences gain through the past 30 years in the working world. But for a young 18 year old, knowing the deep debt they get themselves involved with an unknown future, job opportunity along with poor parents that only understand work is the only way to pay rent for the next month that loan is a tough pill to swallow. Yep, I agree with you. I would turn myself inside out if I had a letter of admission to Harvard, Yale or MIT. My dad would sell his kidney for me. No question about it.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

If you’re in the right program $20k of debt is no big deal. Hell, $100k isn’t that big of a deal for some stuff. If you’re just in school because it’s comfier than any of your alternatives that’s a good sign the final bill is going to be a big deal.

It’s still a very cheap way to buy long tail cash flow.

I'm sure there are people out there who will take comfort in knowing that 20-100k of student loan debt isn't a big deal.

To me, to you, maybe not. To people getting out of school and entering the workforce for the first time... probably a totally different picture. And depending on where that person is living, it could be crushing to them due to an already high cost of living associated with the location.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by rockfan4

I think you have a real opportunity now, with the shortage of healthcare workers.

My wife is a RN at a Nursing home, she has a 2 year degree. Several of her co-workers have come and gone, getting 2 year RN degrees from the local tech school, then working there while they finished their BSN, and then moved on. Prior to the current situation, the local hospitals would only hire you as a nurse, or many other jobs, if you had a 4 year degree. Accreditation was the reason given. I'm not discounting the other reasons given in this thread. I'm familiar with the hiring at one our medical centers, and I know they've relaxed their hiring requirements recently. Now, for some jobs, you take the job, and sign an agreement that you'll earn your bachelor degree within the next 5-6 years. They also have what they call a Tuition Investment Program, where they'll help with your tuition if you're pursuing a degree relevant to your job.

Locally, there's now free CNA training, and the same Med Center has started a CNA to MA program, free.

Now I know you don't live near me, but this can't be the only company doing this.

A few of the larger hospitals in the area are offering to pay tuition for a four year degree with an agreement the person remains there for a certain number of years after they get the degree. My good friend's daughter is contemplating taking this route.

[Seahawk]

A guy a ran rivers with and kayaked a bunch with was an engineering major - aero and mechanical.

I was working on an econ project and I took advantage of a trip we were taking from the Bay Area to the Stanislaus River to kayak. As part of my project, we stopped at 10 convenience stores on the way so I could do my research, ask the clerks questions if able, etc.

The point of the project was to look at product placement in the store, how the store was laid out to maximize foot traffic to the rear of the store, etc.

My buddy was dubious and but decided to not laugh at me, but near me.

At the second store, the independent contractor that arranges and sells all the crap around the cash register area was finishing up. We all talked for about ten minutes. He went through the whole sequence, from the store's cut, his margins, how and why to arrange the cheap merch, etc. If was fascinating.

He had a ton of stores he serviced from Sacramento to Merced and kept detailed notes on what sold where and the gross demographics around the store.

This was in 1979 or so. The guy was pulling down six figures a year off of the sale of stuff around the register!

He snail mailed me a bunch of stuff that was great for the project.

My hardcore engineering buddy was floored: "They 'engineer' the entire store".

One more quick sea story.

We hire a lot of summer interns for our composite work. They are all from very good schools and are all engineering students. Every one of them tells us they are better engineers for the experience because what looks right in CAD is always practical to make.

[cabmandone]

I have friends who are MD's. I've never heard one express happiness at what it cost to get to where they are.

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by Jrboulder

Yeah, but what’s the alternative, skip it because you don’t want to be an MD with some debt?

In a normal world, the alternative would be to look for sensible ways to reduce the cost of the education. Crazy talk! Just accept it, grab some lube and smile! It's part of the game!