Ethical Dilemma - DIY Halal Meat

[unclebilly]

I had 4 surplus bulls to sell this year. All are purebred registered shorthorns and have great pedigree.

I sold one last weekend and another is spoken for. I have 2 yearling bulls left.

This weekend was the weekend for weird inquiries…

1. Some lady wants to buy fresh cow 5hit and piss for medicinal / spiritual purposes… I’m going to let my wife deal with that one but I did tell the lady that we won’t be following our animals around with a bucket… I figure for $100 she can fill her boots with as much cow patties will fit.

2. I got a call today from a Muslim fellow who wants to come out and slaughter an animal according to the Muslim custom. I really don’t like this and think the Halal bleed out of a live carcass is cruel. That being said, we have these animals to make money and I have no say how they are slaughtered after we sell them anyway. They live an amazing life on our farm prior to being slaughtered so there’s that too. We do have 2 steers ready for slaughter and I’m thinking about telling him, $3000 and he can go ahead. I will have the animal in a small pen in the field adjacent to the road allowance and provide some kind of frame they can hang it from to skin it out (not my tractor bucket). My wife hates this idea as much as I do but maybe this is how we maximize return on our commercial animals… way better than getting ripped off at the auction mart buy the likes of Cargill…

So - what do you think? Should I let my love for my animals get in the way of getting paid a decent premium for an animal that I actually don’t like (this guy is an absolute pain in the ass).

[FPB111]

You sell it he owns it.
Butchered on your site? If you can abide it might open a conduit to more $$$ of the same when word gets around that you allow halal on/in your “slaughter “ pen.
If he buys it and takes it down the road, same fate maybe less $$ for you and no.? Return business.
I would probably let him do it and see if he seems to know what he is doing.

[sc_rufctr]

...

Does Halal slaughtering of an animal prolong the suffering?

[aigel]

I figure if the process it is done right, there is zero blood going to the brain as soon as the vessel is cut and the animal should be unconscious immediately. You can read about it online, generally it is considered humane. I am not muslim but I think that folks are usually trained to do this properly to be allowed to perform it by their religious leaders.

Personally, if it was my animal, I would not have an issue with it in terms of ethics. I would make sure however that it is legal to have it performed on site in a commercial sale. (It would be different if you were doing this for your own use or your family's use).

One more thing I'd do is have the guy come visit you first and tell him he should check out the animal. Then walk through the process with him and how he intends to do it. Only if it all checks out would I go ahead.

I have often seen "hogs for sale" or "goats for sale" signs on the country roads around here and was wondering if the farmers would let me dispatch the animal and dress it out on site to then take it home. It isn't very different from this fella's request. I am lucky I still get enough big game animals every now and then to not have to go buy a goat or pig!

BTW, in western culture the animals are popped in the head with a bolt first or shocked, but the jugular is cut immediately after. So not that different.

[Bill Douglas]

No.

The crazy bastards do things like taunting and whipping the animal before slitting it's throat. The animal dies in agony from blood loss.

[look 171]

I had no idea about these thing that have been going on in these cultures. learn something very interesting daily here especially about the whipping and taunting before killing it. Other then that, I have nothing to add.

If they are strictly raised for sales or its meat, from a business stand point, why not?

[dewolf]

Watch how an animal dies from blood loss. It's horrific not to mention barbaric. Cows are far smarter than we give them credit for.

[dewolf]

Originally Posted by look 171

I had no idea about these thing that have been going on in these cultures. learn something very interesting daily here especially about the whipping and taunting before killing it. Other then that, I have nothing to add.

If they are strictly raised for sales or its meat, from a business stand point, why not?

The beating is apparently to get them agitated so their hearts start racing and pump more blood out.

[aigel]

Sure, and how do you know all this? Been to a lot of halal slaughters? Or watched a bunch of "animal rights" propaganda?

I have been on the receiving end of discrimination as a hunter, with similar stories of what allegedly is going on on hunts. And if you run into a hardcore vegan, you'll get the same crap even if you just eat fried chicken.

We should take this as an opportunity to learn - unclebilly should go witness the activity and report back.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by dewolf

The beating is apparently to get them agitated so their hearts start racing and pump more blood out.

Got it. If that's how they see fit, then I can accept that.

[sc_rufctr]

I always thought an Imam had to be present at the time of the slaughter for it to be considered Halal????

[svandamme]

The Halal slaughter in my view is probably nicer then the industrial slaughter done in factories, where animals are herded in a strange , cold environment and subjected to the factory smell and sound.
That they stun the animal does not change the fact that it's already sensing doom LONG before it gets stunned


But I would not recommend they slaughter halal on your property as that may very well subject you to certain legislation related to the slaughter and meat processing.


I really have no problem with Halal.. its the way animals have been slaugthered a thousands years.. and they are basically regs on doing it in a proper way..

Don't stress the animal
don't show it the knife
Do a clean cut of the jugular.. it would feel the blade and be unconcious in seconds.

Would it hurt a bit as the knife cuts
is that cut worse then what industrial slaughter houses do? I would say on the contrary

animals don't mind pain as much as humans do we are a bit over sensitive in that respect.. They do however feel stress and panic when they sense something is up.

[svandamme]

The Halal slaughter in my view is probably nicer then the industrial slaughter done in factories, where animals are herded in a strange , cold environment and subjected to the factory smell and sound.
That they stun the animal does not change the fact that it's already sensing doom LONG before it gets stunned


But I would not recommend they slaughter halal on your property as that may very well subject you to certain legislation related to the slaughter and meat processing.


I really have no problem with Halal.. its the way animals have been slaugthered a thousands years.. and they are basically regs on doing it in a proper way..

Don't stress the animal
don't show it the knife
Do a clean cut of the jugular.. it would feel the blade and be unconcious in seconds.

Would it hurt a bit as the knife cuts
is that cut worse then what industrial slaughter houses do? I would say on the contrary

animals don't mind pain as much as humans do we are a bit over sensitive in that respect.. They do however feel stress and panic when they sense something is up.

No Imam has to be present.

[svandamme]

The Halal slaughter in my view is probably nicer then the industrial slaughter done in factories, where animals are herded in a strange , cold environment and subjected to the factory smell and sound.
That they stun the animal does not change the fact that it's already sensing doom LONG before it gets stunned


But I would not recommend they slaughter halal on your property as that may very well subject you to certain legislation related to the slaughter and meat processing.


I really have no problem with Halal.. its the way animals have been slaugthered a thousands years.. and they are basically regs on doing it in a proper way..

Don't stress the animal
don't show it the knife
Do a clean cut of the jugular.. it would feel the blade and be unconcious in seconds.

Would it hurt a bit as the knife cuts
is that cut worse then what industrial slaughter houses do? I would say on the contrary

animals don't mind pain as much as humans do we are a bit over sensitive in that respect.. They do however feel stress and panic when they sense something is up.

No Imam has to be present. But it has to be a muslim that makes the cut

[unclebilly]

Here are the flags for me:

1. This guy has never done this before. He will be bringing a friend who has.

2. If he gets hurt, I don’t want to be sued.

3. I don’t want a mess left behind.

4. This will be don’t in the field. I don’t have a facility for this.

5. We don’t want the rest of the herd to see what is going on.

The meat is for their own use, not for commercial purposes.

I’ve seen what happens in the smaller slaughter houses, where I take my animals that we slaughter. The heart is still pumping out the blood but the animal is ‘dead’.

[ltusler]

I would be concerned about potential liability if something goes wrong and you getting a reputation for this in their community.

[berettafan]

When you create a hospitable environment for one it will be shared and there soon will be many others.

So, no.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by berettafan

When you create a hospitable environment for one it will be shared and there soon will be many others.

So, no.

If they're decent people who pay well... Why not?

[masraum]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

...

Does Halal slaughtering of an animal prolong the suffering?

Originally Posted by aigel

I figure if the process it is done right, there is zero blood going to the brain as soon as the vessel is cut and the animal should be unconscious immediately. You can read about it online, generally it is considered humane. I am not muslim but I think that folks are usually trained to do this properly to be allowed to perform it by their religious leaders.

I believe it's also almost the same process that would make the meat kosher.

I probably wouldn't want to watch, but as long as the guy knows what's he's doing and pays.

Agreed with one of the other posters. I suspect it would also lead to more business by word of mouth, so if you are game for more of it, go for it.

[PorscheGAL]

Found this article

Interesting quote:

"Vets say unstunned cattle take about 20 seconds (but up to 2 minutes) to lose consciousness, sheep six or seven seconds (but up to 20) and poultry seven or eight seconds, but all these times can be far longer."

Personally, I would be most worried about liability but the actual slaughter wouldn't bother me.