Battery tech

[crb07]

This will probably end up in PARF but figured it should piss off as many as possible first.

https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1114964240/new-battery-technology-china-vanadium

[Sooner or later]

Sad in so many ways.

[wilnj]

Just saw the same thing and was coming to post it. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg in what's been sold or stolen.

[GH85Carrera]

Insane. Bureaucrats making decisions that should be almost treasonous.

[Otter74]

Stupendously bad decision-making, but great reporting from NPR.

[Sooner or later]

No US investment...

[A930Rocket]

Un-****ing-believable.

So the technology and license were given to China but the license has now been pulled. Sounds like the cat is out of the bag, with China now having the technology to build the battery. And they have no qualms of using/stealing technology for their benefit.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by wilnj

Just saw the same thing and was coming to post it. I'm sure this is just the tip of the iceberg in what's been sold or stolen.

Yes. I don't see anything stopping a US company from building and selling these batteries. Didn't this just happen with solar PV panels?

[SCadaddle]

You probably shouldn't have to be a battery technology scientist/engineer to realize the surname "Yang" isn't Scotch-Irish.

[David Inc.]

NPR's reporting saying that DOE is understaffed and often relies on self-reporting in these applications, so no big surprise it was missed.

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

No US investment...

This was also disappointing. US companies and banks think short term so wanted rapid return on investment. They're not going to invest in something long term unless they're pushed into it by government.

[nota]

I am seeing tesla batterys on sale on craigs list CHEAP from wrecks

WARNING THEY BURN they are NOT LiFeP

[masraum]

What a depressing article. It would be nice if charges could be filed against the folks that enabled the original issue.

"license was pulled" Yeah, that'll stop the Chinese! They are all about respecting licensing, patents, trademarks, and IP ownership.

[David]

Sad but not surprising. The US is too short sighted these days.

By my math, solar panels covering an area the size of Connecticut would provide enough electricity in 8 hours a day to power the US for 24 hours a day. Obviously electric power storage of some sort would be required when the sun goes down.

The possibility of getting off coal and most natural gas power generation isn't that far fetched.

[KevinTodd]

Thanks to all of our duly elected officials, said no one ever. Ugh.

[Superman]

Here we have an accusation that this is all DOE's fault for allowing manufacturing to occur outside the US, but the article suggests UniEnergy Technologies mislead DOE. The article also reports that DOE has yanked UniEnergy's license for failing to meet its requirement to manufacture in the US.

And here is what lies at the heart of UniEnergy's decisions:

The agency issued the license, and Yang launched UniEnergy Technologies. He hired engineers and researchers. But he soon ran into trouble. He said he couldn't persuade any U.S. investors to come aboard.

"I talked to almost all major investment banks; none of them (wanted to) invest in batteries," Yang said in an interview, adding that the banks wanted a return on their investments faster than the batteries would turn a profit.

Finally, the article reports the current state of licensure and the future state of both American and Chinese manufacture:

Now that the Department of Energy has revoked the license, Skievaski said she hopes Forever Energy will be able to acquire it or obtain a similar license. The company plans to open a factory in Louisiana next year and begin manufacturing. She bristles at the idea that U.S. engineers aren't up to the challenge.

"That's hogwash," she said. "We are ready to go with this technology."

Still, she says it will be difficult for any American company at this point to catch up. Industry trade reports currently list Dalian Rongke Power Co. Ltd. as the top manufacturer of vanadium redox flow batteries worldwide. Skievaski also worries about whether China will stop making the batteries once an American company is granted the right to start making them.

It seems that DOE has provided for American manufacture. But....China's manufacturing infrastructure is considerably more efficient than ours. Will China stop making these things? Yes, as long as the Moon is made of green cheese. Of course China will continue making these. There never was a way of preventing them from stealing the technology.

This is a failure of American manufacturing economics being told as if it were a failure of federal gubmit.

[red-beard]

Honestly, Vanadium is a blind hole. Vanadium is too expensive. The Iron flow batteries are already here and are significantly less expensive. And soon, I think they will be even less expensive.

Iron runs about $600/MT where Vanadium is around $1.6-2.0M/MT, a factor of ~3,000.

I do agree that it was stupid for the Chinese to be sold the technology.