A defective Copperhead

[Heel n Toe]

My sister sent me this pic she saw on a critter group she belongs to on Facebook. I've seen all kinds of variants of North American snakes (in books), but this one is on another level.

Probably due to climate change.

[Bill Douglas]

As a belt I think he would go well with a pair of shoes I have,

[T77911S]

we use to have a BIG copper head (and water moc) issue. in fact one of our dogs has been bitten several times by copper heads. the lab was bitten by a cotton mouth and almost killed her.
cant say i have seen one like that, but not a good pic.
there is a snake that looks just like a copper head but it is not poisonous.
cant see the head very well but not sure that one is poisonous
even so, that long marking on its back is not normal.

[masraum]

Cool! We have a lot of copperheads around here. Well, I've seen 5-10 in the past almost 2 years since we moved. A few of those were when we started moving old piles of wood and crap out away from the house. I think all of the copperheads that I've seen have been have been ~14-24". We also have "broadbanded copperheads," agkistrodon laticinctus vs the "eastern copperhead," agkistrodon contortrix.

Snakes can have some pretty extreme variations in their patterns and coloring. Most of the time they look similar, but sometimes you can have huge variation of pattern. It looks like that's what you've got here.

For instance.

Here's a Texas Coral snake (melanistic)


This is also a Texas Coral snake (albino)


This is also a Texas Coral snake (anerythristic)


Here's an Eastern Coral snake from south Florida


Here's another Eastern Coral snake with an aberrant pattern

[masraum]

Here are some pics of eastern copperheads showing some variation.

[T77911S]

the hour glass shape and the head are what you look at.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by T77911S

the hour glass shape and the head are what you look at.

Or...

[Tobra]

Copperheads are nasty, aggressive little SOBs. Bite probably won't kill you, but you might wish it did.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Copperheads are nasty, aggressive little SOBs. Bite probably won't kill you, but you might wish it did.

Funny, I've run into 5-10 and even stepped on one, and they've all been timid. I think the one that I stepped on was cold. But the rest haven't postured aggressively or anything. I've even moved a couple and they just hung on the end of the tool and then slithered off when I put them down. I'm glad that the one's that I've run into have been laid back!

[matthewb0051]

I don't like spiders and snakes... and that ain't what it takes


We were sitting around a couple of weeks ago on the cousins' vacation in Colorado. A few of them are prone to repeating whatever they have heard and taken as gospel. Sure enough, the topic of snakes came up and one person said; yeah, that's what happened to Andy, he was bitten by the baby copperhead and we all know they can't control their venom use and just give you all they got when they bite.

I had to pipe up and say that was a wives tale. Pretty sure I was the only one out of 10 people that thought it a wives tail.

Google being my friend I looked it up and my version was confirmed by several sources. I let them continue in their belief though.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

I don't like spiders and snakes... and that ain't what it takes


We were sitting around a couple of weeks ago on the cousins' vacation in Colorado. A few of them are prone to repeating whatever they have heard and taken as gospel. Sure enough, the topic of snakes came up and one person said; yeah, that's what happened to Andy, he was bitten by the baby copperhead and we all know they can't control their venom use and just give you all they got when they bite.

I had to pipe up and say that was a wives tale. Pretty sure I was the only one out of 10 people that thought it a wives tail.

Google being my friend I looked it up and my version was confirmed by several sources. I let them continue in their belief though.

Yeah, you're unlikely to change their mind.

I've seen some very small copperheads, that have had VERY tiny heads. I assume fang size is probably proportionate to head size. I'd wonder about a tiny one being able to get a fang to you unless you were wearing shorts or flip flops or spandex or barefoot.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, you're unlikely to change their mind.

I've seen some very small copperheads, that have had VERY tiny heads. I assume fang size is probably proportionate to head size. I'd wonder about a tiny one being able to get a fang to you unless you were wearing shorts or flip flops or spandex or barefoot.

IIRC, "Andy" was in flip flops and got smoked. Right off the front porch.


After my father died I was having his yard tended to by a crew. The realtor called me to deliver the bad news that the crew had found several copperheads in what I would call monkey grass that was next to the driveway and sidewalk up to front door. Great, just great.

A few weeks later we were moving stuff out and I told a few folks best to not use front door and be careful near sidewalk. Apparently I'm full of it because I swear one or two of them went straight out the front door and right over the monkey grass. Lucky for them nothing happened.

When the crew did the big yard clean up prior to listing the house, they took all that stuff out. Pretty sure they scarred off the snakes at least for a few hours..

[masraum]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

IIRC, "Andy" was in flip flops and got smoked. Right off the front porch.


After my father died I was having his yard tended to by a crew. The realtor called me to deliver the bad news that the crew had found several copperheads in what I would call monkey grass that was next to the driveway and sidewalk up to front door. Great, just great.

A few weeks later we were moving stuff out and I told a few folks best to not use front door and be careful near sidewalk. Apparently I'm full of it because I swear one or two of them went straight out the front door and right over the monkey grass. Lucky for them nothing happened.

When the crew did the big yard clean up prior to listing the house, they took all that stuff out. Pretty sure they scarred off the snakes at least for a few hours..

I've cleared anything that would be considered "brushy" or "bushy" from near the house, and when we mow, we mow short. I understand that snakes like a place to hide, so I'm not giving them anyplace to hide. That seems to have pretty much fixed our issue. There are some places on our property that I'm sure I could go find copperheads, but they are well away from the house.

[HobieMarty]

Yep, snakes are "hiders" and they want to be away from you as much as you want to be away from them.
My in laws used to live 8 houses down from me and one of their dogs got bitten by a copperhead, the dog was given anti-venom at the vet and was okay. I have never seen a copperhead here at my house and, like I said, we were only 8 houses apart with the same woods behind us.
A couple of years ago they moved to another house about 2 or 3 miles away from us, no longer part of the same neighborhood or woods and a few months ago the same dog was bitten again by a copperhead and again he survived. I guess we have been lucky here at my house, the only snakes I have seen are harmless black rat or King snakes. Whenever one would get too close to the house, I gently move it along with a broom and that's about it.
I had a pet King snake once when I was in my 20s so, snakes don't bother me, but I do treat every snake with some respect and don't provoke them.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[masraum]

Originally Posted by HobieMarty

Yep, snakes are "hiders" and they want to be away from you as much as you want to be away from them.
My in laws used to live 8 houses down from me and one of their dogs got bitten by a copperhead, the dog was given anti-venom at the vet and was okay. I have never seen a copperhead here at my house and, like I said, we were only 8 houses apart with the same woods behind us.
A couple of years ago they moved to another house about 2 or 3 miles away from us, no longer part of the same neighborhood or woods and a few months ago the same dog was bitten again by a copperhead and again he survived. I guess we have been lucky here at my house, the only snakes I have seen are harmless black rat or King snakes. Whenever one would get too close to the house, I gently move it along with a broom and that's about it.
I had a pet King snake once when I was in my 20s so, snakes don't bother me, but I do treat every snake with some respect and don't provoke them.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

When we moved to where we live now, in the COUNTRY, I joined a couple of facebook groups about snakes and snakebites. I'm sure this isn't always the case, but I see a lot of dogs that survive. I think most snakes give a warning bite, and I assume most dogs are curious and try to sniff the snake or look at it real close and that's how they are bitten. But that's just a guess on my part. I've always felt like dogs were pretty robust and resilient if nature is allowed to take its course.

I've never had or wanted a snake, but they are neat. I'm fine with them being around as long as we leave each other alone. They can hang out and eat all of the small critters they want as long as they stay out of and away from our home. I have relocated a couple of copperheads off of our property (field next door or across the street). I've observed several non-venomous snakes.

[Tobra]

Must have been cold out Steve, they are nasty

[T77911S]

red and yellow kill a fellow
red and black safe for jack.

i always look at the head.
triangle is bad. or i call them the ugly head.

i use to have a Burmese python so i dont mind them too much.
we have a large black snake that shows up once in a while.
he was on top of the bushes by the door one time.
wife only said, the snakes back and just goes about her day

[masraum]

Originally Posted by T77911S

red and yellow kill a fellow
red and black safe for jack.

i always look at the head.
triangle is bad. or i call them the ugly head.

You've got to be careful with that red/yellow/black rhyme. It's an OK guideline, but not something that you should rely on 100%.

Snakes can have some pretty extreme variations in their patterns and coloring. Most of the time they look similar, but sometimes you can have huge variation of pattern. It looks like that's what you've got here.

For instance, all of the snakes below are venomous coral snakes that are supposed to match the rhyme, but because of genetic variation, they don't.

Originally Posted by masraum

Here's a Texas Coral snake (melanistic)


This is also a Texas Coral snake (albino)


This is also a Texas Coral snake (anerythristic)


Here's an Eastern Coral snake from south Florida


Here's another Eastern Coral snake with an aberrant pattern

This is a Texas Coral snake with normal coloration. It's the same species as the first 3 pics above.


And this is an Eastern Coral Snake with normal coloration which is the same species as the last 2 photos above.


Certainly (in the US) if you see red and yellow touching, that's a clue to leave the snake alone. But what if it's one of the snakes that has unusual coloring?
https://ufwildlife.ifas.ufl.edu/snakes/coralsnake.shtml

Body is marked with wide bands that completely encircle the body. Red and black bands are separated by slightly narrower yellow bands; red bands often have black speckles. Think of the colors of a stoplight – if you see yellow bands touching red bands, stop! Snout is rounded and black, and a wide yellow band runs across the back of the head. Tail is ringed with black and yellow. Scales are smooth. It may be confused with the harmless Scarlet Kingsnake or Scarletsnake.

I think the "black, rounded nose" is a pretty solid rule (except for albinos!).
The head shape on coral snakes is very different from the crotalid (copperhead, rattlesnake, cottonmouth) heads.