Reloading (Spoon Food)

[jyl]

I am sure we have a few reloaders here.

The cost of centerfire ammunition is really bothering me. A session at the pistol range costs $40-50 in ammo. That’s just 100 rounds, and that’s shooting the cheap stuff bought online. It’s basically driven me to .22LR, which I like fine but I don’t want to be limited to just .22.

However, I’ve heard that reloading has become expensive too.

How much does it cost to get equipment for reloading one pistol caliber, then how much for each additional caliber? Including supplies (primers, powder, bullets?), how much does it then cost to produce each round?

Would you reload just to save money? Or is it not justified unless you want to work up custom or special purpose loads?

[KFC911]

Waitin' for Higgy to talk ya out of this

[herr_oberst]

Start hitting up all the tire shops for their used lead!

[flatbutt]

Primers have nearly become unobtainium. Last I saw was 1000 primers for $60, RMR 9mm bullets will run from 9 to 11 cents per and you need brass and propellant. All after buying a press and dies, etc.

[jyl]

( 6 c for primer + 10 c for bullet + X c for powder ) + ( Y $ for equipment ) / N number of reloaded rounds < 50 c per commercial round

If I know X and Y, can calculate breakeven volume N.

Assumes labor and cases are free.

I’m using 50 c for commercial rounds because I’m currently most interested in .38 SPL wadcutter, which are not the cheapest ammo.

[tabs]

Reloading is a hobby all unto itself.

Step one do some research. Check on the cost of primers, casings, bullets and powder.that you would use in your calibers..to find out if it is cost effective. You can use cast lead bullets bought in bulk from various mfg's. you can get spent brass cases and reload them. Powder and primers you are at the mercy of the going rate.

Then check on the cost of the equipment you will need. The Dillion 550B is about the best progressive press that can turn out hundreds of rounds per hour. There is a whole slew of accessories to go along with that unit. You can find those reasonably priced at On Line gun auctions where they usually come with a bunch of extras. Or you could get one of the classic reloading presses the RCBS Rock Chucker which is a single round at a time press..indispensable for big rifle calibers. Those usually can be found for cheap at an online auction. A good digital powder scale would come in handy, a Case Tumbler to clean your used brass, a lead pot if you of mind t cast your own bullets..in some of the obsolete calibers it is the only way to get bullets.

As far as the Dies to size, prime and crimp you bullets...those on on line auctions are no real bargain. For you major pistol calibers Carbide Dies are the way to go..las I looked they were about $55 a set new from distributors..Redding, RCBS C&H..1st choice Lyman, Hornday does the job.

Ebay is a good place to look for used equipment...watch yer prices by knowing what it goes for retail.

I do not think that you are going to save a ton of money by reloading..you will save some...and over time especially if you shoot a lot it is worth while.

[tabs]

When 9mm or 7.62 x 39 was sub .20 cents a round it was not worth while to reload. But now at .35 cents up it makes more sense.

[KFC911]

You do it because it's something you want to do, and it might turn out to be fun....

Otherwise, work an extra hour at yer "day job" each month and come out way ahead .... 'cause youze gots skillz that pay more than reloading ever will .

I say gopher it

[John Rogers]

If you consider all the pieces to reload, then treat that cost like tools for your car/race car/motorcycle then what you have to worry about are the prices for powder, primers and the bullet. In those cases, the chance to stock up make reloading a good investment. Depending on where you live if there are "gun shows" then you can buy boxes of cast lead wad cutters or semi wad cutters, the powder, primers and all you need is something to reload. Cases need to be de-primed, cleaned, polished, case length checked, length adjusted and then repeat for all 500 cases you have. You will also need some good plastic boxes to hold the new reloads in such as available on line.

Note RCBS sells a complete reloading setup for the Rock Chunker in a box (or used to?) so all you'll need is a vibrating cleaner and walnut shells to do the polishing.

The one thing no mentioned so far is a place to do all this, if you have a nice garage then it will slowly be taken over by all this stuff, oh yeah you'll need a bench to do all this on.
John

[Jeff Higgins]

The dirty little secret (and running insider joke) to reloading centerfire rifle and handgun ammo is that it actually costs more than buying commercial ammo. The reason being that we simply wind up shooting more...

I've been reloading for going on 45 years. I have helped more aspiring reloaders than I can remember that wanted to get into the hobby. I can say, without reservation, that each and every one of them that got into it to "save money" didn't do it for long. As a result of having watched that play out over these many years, I would have to say that "saving money" is the worst possible reason to get into reloading.

One has to enjoy it as a hobby in and of itself. Another oft repeated insider joke is that there are shooters who reload so they can shoot, but handloaders shoot so they can reload. A very real difference in attitude and approach.

Personally, I reload so I can shoot obsolete, oddball calibers. I also reload to improve the performance of what are readily available, mainstream calibers. Some of the things I do in this pursuit actually do save me money, but that is not why I do them.

Bullet casting is a good example of something that really does save money. I would, however, cast my own for specific applications even if it was more costly to do so. In these applications, I can simply make better bullets, more suited to those applications, than anyone produces commercially. Heavy big game hunting with revolvers is one such application where the performance of what we can cast at home vastly exceeds that of any commercially available load or component bullet.

Alas, even the cost savings available through bullet casting are largely coming to an end. Someone mentioned getting discarded wheel weights from your local tire store for use as your casting alloy. My God, but the tons of bullets cast from wheel weights I've sent downrange. One of the best alloys available for revolver bullets and straight walled rifle cartridges, like the .45-70. However - and this is a big "however" - modern wheel weights ain't what they used to be...

Modern "stick-on" wheel weights have zinc in them. The old clip-on style, used on steel wheels, did not. Unfortunately, zinc is anathema to bullet casting - even the slightest trace in your alloy will ruin it. Bullets simply will not fill out in the mold with any level of zinc contamination.

So, what's a mother to do? For the last decade or so, I have purchased on foundry quality, certified lead alloys. We can buy "wheel weight" alloy this way, it has become that ubiquitous in our world. We have to pay for it, though, rather than leaving that bucket at the tire shop.

Anyway, I could go on and on. Suffice to say that "saving money" is no reason to reload. Unless it piques your interest as a hobby unto itself, you'll soon give it up, and find yourself with a lot of expensive, unused equipment. If you are determined, and think you might gain that interest, take advantage of that phenomena - there is a lot of such equipment that folks would love to get rid of. Hit the gun shows, surf Craigslist and other sites, check the bulletin boards at guns shops, etc. No reason to buy new. You can't wear this equipment out. Believe me, I've tried.

[Por_sha911]

On ocassion, I agree with Jeff. Mark the calendar-today is one of those days.

I did the research and then asked my local Armorer (who does a lot of custom work and reloads for personal use only) a zillion questions. What I found:
-Reloading really pays for itself when shooting 45 Colt and larger calibers. It is decent if you also shoot a lot of 45 ACP. If you shoot in high volume (like in competition), 9 mm can also help keep costs down.
-Reloaders like to have their own secret formula for powder and bullets. They can customize their hot loads.
-Used equipment shows up a lot (like used exercise equipment) but you need the proper die set for each caliber you will be loading.
-As others have said, equipment is cheap but powder and especially primers are in the obtainium range (although starting to come down a little latey.
-As Jeff said,casting your own bullet is great for oddball sizes but lead is no longer "free". Along those lines, keep in mind casting with lead means breathing lead fumes unless you invest in a high quality respirator. Used brass is free if you police your brass at the range.
***You must have a dedicated work bench in a climate controlled environment. Humidity and temperature will seriously affect the power. (I just don't have the space-just ask my wife).
-You need to really do your homework to learn the craft. Your safety (and even possibly your life) may depend on the quality of the work you do.
***It takes a lot of time (especially when you are first starting out) if you are using a single stage press). Most starter kits are single state and take longer. This is not something you want to do while watching the game on TV. Squibs and overly hot loads are bad for your health.

I really wanted to do reloading but just don't have the time (until I retire) and then I still have a problem with finding a place for a dedicated workbench. Those things make it a no-go for me.

If you still want to get into it, I suggest buying Lyman Reloading Manual (some folks prefer Speer or Hornady) and start learning. After reading, make friends with a successful reloader and ask questions.

[Jeff Higgins]

Run-of-the-mill calibers, particularly anything in current military use, can be had in bulk for less money than it takes to produce a reloaded round. My son and I compared costs of .223, .308, and .45 ACP. His bulk ammo purchases beat my costs by several cents per round for the two rifle rounds, and were not enough more on the pistol round to warrant the effort.

Especially with the firearms he prefers, which fall into that "black rifle" realm. These are two to four MOA rifles on their best day, with my best "match grade" ammo. Shooting surplus bulk ammo does not noticeably detract from their performance.

And, yes, one must have a dedicated work space. Much of the equipment has to be bolted down solidly onto the workbench to function at all. Having to tear it down and set it back up to use that bench for other tasks is just a royal PIA.

As far as "climate controlled", I do all of this in the basement of my air conditioned in the summer, heated in the winter house. Lots of folks use a spare bedroom, or whatever. The point is, if you are living comfortably in it, that's enough "climate control". Powders and primers are exceedingly temperature and humidity stable, at least modern examples are. Old British Cordite, black powder - "store in a cool, dry place". Oh, and if you have a source for Cordite, please let me know. Most of us use Reloder 15 as a subsitute, but I digress...

And yes - lead. Be exceedingly careful with this stuff. The rumors are all true. I have never worn a respirator, and nobody I know who actually casts bullets wears one either. That said, I cast in my garage with both garage doors open, a small fan, never any food or drink, and I change clothes right away when finished. I have never had a problem with exposure, and I insist on getting tested every year as a part of my physical.

And, hoo boy - listen to Joe. Do your homework. This is a very safe hobby, but it doesn't suffer fools. We are unleashing up to 60,000 PSI inches from our already ugly mugs. We don't need to make them any uglier. I've seen "accidents" at the range, although I'm reluctant to call them that - they are the products of carelessness and inattention. Or, even worse, that idiot who thinks he can add "just a little more" powder than the manuals say because, you know - "we all know they're on the safe side, written by lawyers"...

[Jeff Higgins]

It's a disease, I tell you...

[herr_oberst]

I take it you're a bit of a completist. You need one of each once you get going on a thing.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's a disease, I tell you...

WHAT!!! No 50/140, 500 Nitro or 505 Gibbs????

A friend reloads the 500 Nitro and 505 Gibbs...he has taken them to Africa on multiple occasions...and reloads for his friends at the Safari Club for when they go to Africa...he weighs the powder twice for each round.

He can't shoot the big boys anymore cause it detached a retina...and he is getting older.

[craigster59]

I've been contemplating reloading mainly for the reason that finding Savage 250-3000 is getting next to impossible and I have 3 spoons in 6.5x55 Swede that seems to be harder to find lately also.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It's a disease, I tell you...

You must have a serious amount of dies and bullet molds!

[tabs]

Here is something to consider there might come a time when you can not source ammo...if you have reloading capability and the supply's you won't be without..

The other option is to stock up piles of ammo, buy it in bulk.

Becoming g a Prepper right about now is not such a bad idear. You will be in good company if you do..as a number of household name Billionaires have their get away destinations...one of them even has retired Seal Team members on call if needed.

It is serous out there folks..

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Would you mind listing the calibers front row/back row please.
(I don't see S&W 460 mag)

[Jeff Higgins]

Third from the left is a 6.5x55, and fifth one over is a .300 Savage. Another real oddball is the .348 Winchester, eighth from the left. The latter two are impossible to find anymore. Included also are the .40-70 Sharps Straight, .45-2.4, and .45-2.6. Strictly handloading, bullet casting propositions. Oh, and the .220 Swift (second from left) isn't all that easy to find either.

I've actually loaded a good number of .577 Nitro Express for an acquaintance who used to lug one off to Africa. That's where I learned that Reloder 15 is the preferred substitute for Cordite. Ross Seyfried has a conversion formula that works out very well. Yeah, 750 grain Woodleigh bullets (about five bucks each) at darn near 2,000 fps. Not a lot of fun off the bench.