who's getting hooked up?

[juanbenae]

was out in the jeep this weekend with a buddy that is Nevada resident riding shotgun. we were out in an area local to me where the trail goes through an off the grid area called Jupiter that is well known for the tweakers, growers and people that are less than savory. this buddy took one of his many spoons along with his recently obtained Nev concealed carry permit. I took no exception to this as the trails were very rural and there is really no law enforcement or much in the way of Forestry personnel out there, and even if we did run into them there'd likely be no more than a wave.

my question is since it is my vehicle, I'm driving if the piece was discovered (full mag in place, empty chamber} who would get the citation or be the target of the ire? the spoon is legally bought and registered to my buddy.

would I be told "good day to you sir" walk and he get all the attention?

[Porchdog]

I don't know the answer to your question.

I will say - for a guy from a relatively free state - Getting hooked up for mere possession is nothing short of a pure constitutional violation, as the Supreme Court recently made clear.

While I consider the requirement for carry permits to be unconstitutional on it's own, States need to give full faith and credit to permits from other states, the same as drivers licenses.

It's ludicrous that it's perfectly legal for me to have my gun in PA, but I cross an invisible line to New York or New Jersey and it's a felony. Those laws are blatant constitutional violations on their face.

Everyone involved in such laws and arrests needs to be sued into poverty and imprisoned for life.

[Bill Douglas]

If you keep it out of sight. Throw a towel over it. It won't be an issue.

[Rick Lee]

Was this in CA? Whoever owns up to the gun catches the charge. I don't know about NV laws outside of Clark County, but Clark Co. requires handgun registration, which means the owner has a "blue card" attached to his gun's serial # and his name. So there's really no way for him to lie and pin that on you or for you to try to take the blame for him. That's IF he's a Clark Co. resident.

[matthewb0051]

According to US Concealed Carry, his NV concealed permit does not have reciprocity in CA. I'd say that would be his problem. Furthermore, CA has no reciprocity with any (free) state.

But as long as there is no PC to search the person or vehicle then it really wouldn't be an issue unless you give permission or it is in plain sight. Of course, if searched pursuant to detention, Terry stop, and found then it could present a problem for him.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

I don't know the answer to your question.

I will say - for a guy from a relatively free state - Getting hooked up for mere possession is nothing short of a pure constitutional violation, as the Supreme Court recently made clear.

While I consider the requirement for carry permits to be unconstitutional on it's own, States need to give full faith and credit to permits from other states, the same as drivers licenses.

It's ludicrous that it's perfectly legal for me to have my gun in PA, but I cross an invisible line to New York or New Jersey and it's a felony. Those laws are blatant constitutional violations on their face.

Everyone involved in such laws and arrests needs to be sued into poverty and imprisoned for life.

Take that rhetoric to PARF.

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

If you keep it out of sight. Throw a towel over it. It won't be an issue.

Agreed. It was in a fanny pack shoved in the pocket of the back side of my seat cover. this was not a club event, but all along were club members and the club by laws call for no firearms allowed. I'm sure there are a number of them stashed away on our runs. This is Tuolumne County after all.. I think it has to do more with shooting when we stop for lunch or something at a trailside spot.

My buddy was aware his permit was not valid in CA, and we both agreed we did not want to be near Jupiter after dark spoon less. he packs every time we head out, even on our dual sport bikes.

[island911]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

Take that rhetoric to PARF.
....

Seriously?

Dude, you ARE discussing politics. Policy is Politics. In this case the giant rub of Sate vs Federal.

[Porchdog]

Take that rhetoric to PARF.

Fine

You are an accessory to a felony in your state. You are every bit as subject to getting "hooked up" as your buddy and your local law enforcement and legislators will love making an example of you.

Happy?

[David]

I read an article recently about the large increase in gun citations in Texas. I couldn’t find the link but the gist is that while texas passed a permit less carry law, many people don’t know the law. One of the big points of texas law is that you can’t have a gun open and in reach in your car without a permit. Sounds like people are getting pulled over for traffic infractions and think they’re ok to have their gun laying out in the open.

[Rick Lee]

That sounds like a crazy law. Why would anyone think they need a CCW permit to keep a gun in the open in their car? It's more likely they think they need a permit to keep it concealed in their car, hence the in plain view thing.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by David

I read an article recently about the large increase in gun citations in Texas. I couldn’t find the link but the gist is that while texas passed a permit less carry law, many people don’t know the law. One of the big points of texas law is that you can’t have a gun open and in reach in your car without a permit. Sounds like people are getting pulled over for traffic infractions and think they’re ok to have their gun laying out in the open.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

That sounds like a crazy law. Why would anyone think they need a CCW permit to keep a gun in the open in their car? It's more likely they think they need a permit to keep it concealed in their car, hence the in plain view thing.

I had a case right after the law changed and neither the on scene officers, the on call detective, nor the on call DA knew the specifics of the new law nor how to enforce it.

https://faq.sll.texas.gov/questions/42809

Prior to September 1st, 2021, only those with a Texas License to Carry (LTC) were permitted to keep a handgun in "plain view" within the vehicle. However, House Bill 1927 eliminated this requirement. See our FAQ on HB 1927 for more details. After September 1st, 2021, Texans who do not have an LTC but are otherwise eligible to carry a handgun in their vehicle can keep the gun in "plain view". The gun must be in a holster:

Most of my cases in this realm involve some other infraction like weed. They don't prosecute the weed but they do on the unlawful carry. Edit: and in most of the weed cases the guy is riding around with the pistol on the seat just under his leg and a lot of times with a 30 round magazine, SMH.

What's even more confusing is the carry laws and signs citing the law that are displayed by businesses. There is one that prohibits open carry even by those with license in a business if they post the sign. Some signs are so obscured and not in correct format that it is way too easy to walk into a store and be in violation. There is also a 51% sign that I've only seen once. It has something to do with even a license holder can't carry at all in an establishment that derives 51% of revenue from booze sales/consumption (or so I believe is how it is written).

[bleucamaro]

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice:

In CA, you are required to have a CA CCW to carry concealed. Illegal Concealed Carry is kinda spelled out here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=25400. 1st offense looks like a $1000 fine, or jail time.

To transport firearms in CA, they need to be unloaded and in a locked container (or have a cable lock through the chamber). The locked container cannot be the glove box, center console, or other utility box. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel#:~:text=Pursuant%20to%20California%20Penal% 20Code,or%20in%20a%20locked%20container.

To me, this looks like, if the gun is concealed on your passenger's person, you would most likely not be criminally liable, but would most likely give PC to have your vehicle searched if stopped, and if the LEO discovered the gun.

If it was in the car, and not on your passenger's person, I think you are more liable (responsible) for the transportation of it, as it's your car and you're driving it.

It also gets weird if you're camping, you're allowed to concealed carry in your dwelling (car/ motorhome / tent/ campsite). sorry can't find source for this.

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by bleucamaro

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice:

In CA, you are required to have a CA CCW to carry concealed. Illegal Concealed Carry is kinda spelled out here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=25400. 1st offense looks like a $1000 fine, or jail time.

To transport firearms in CA, they need to be unloaded and in a locked container (or have a cable lock through the chamber). The locked container cannot be the glove box, center console, or other utility box. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel#:~:text=Pursuant%20to%20California%20Penal% 20Code,or%20in%20a%20locked%20container.

To me, this looks like, if the gun is concealed on your passenger's person, you would most likely not be criminally liable, but would most likely give PC to have your vehicle searched if stopped, and if the LEO discovered the gun.

If it was in the car, and not on your passenger's person, I think you are more liable (responsible) for the transportation of it, as it's your car and you're driving it.

It also gets weird if you're camping, you're allowed to concealed carry in your dwelling (car/ motorhome / tent/ campsite). sorry can't find source for this.

thanks for the solid data sir. I've got lockable ammo boxes on the fender wells of the jeep so it sounds like my best bet is to have him put it in one of them when we head out. at least until we get out into the areas away from "town" and stash it back in the cans when we get back closer to civilization.

we do see many the hunter out during the fall in places we will frequent, and they have long guns very visible in trucks, jeeps and quads. im having to assume these road hunters (im aware hunting shooting from the road is a no-no) are loaded up. would a hunting license exempt one from any issues in this instance? the oversight in one area in particular is little to none. we were out this past fall and there was fire restriction in place due to wildfire danger at the time and a number of the camps had smokey fires burning right off a frequented forestry road. A road that accommodated RV and non offroad vehicles at the camps.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

Most of my cases in this realm involve some other infraction like weed. They don't prosecute the weed but they do on the unlawful carry. Edit: and in most of the weed cases the guy is riding around with the pistol on the seat just under his leg and a lot of times with a 30 round magazine, SMH.

Sounds like fine upstanding citizens.

What's even more confusing is the carry laws and signs citing the law that are displayed by businesses. There is one that prohibits open carry even by those with license in a business if they post the sign. Some signs are so obscured and not in correct format that it is way too easy to walk into a store and be in violation. There is also a 51% sign that I've only seen once. It has something to do with even a license holder can't carry at all in an establishment that derives 51% of revenue from booze sales/consumption (or so I believe is how it is written).

My understanding is that the 30.06 and 30.07 signs have to be prominently displayed near the entrance in contrasting colors with at least 1" tall letters. If they don't have them posted like that, then you can probably get off (assuming a good lawyer).

I think I've seen a 51% sign <5 times, but then I don't go to that many bars. Hmm, I thought it was bars (consumed) but not places like liquor stores.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

Take that rhetoric to PARF.

Ask for help then jump down someone's throat. Kinda triggered today?

Originally Posted by bleucamaro

I'm not a lawyer, this is not legal advice:

In CA, you are required to have a CA CCW to carry concealed. Illegal Concealed Carry is kinda spelled out here: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=25400. 1st offense looks like a $1000 fine, or jail time.

To transport firearms in CA, they need to be unloaded and in a locked container (or have a cable lock through the chamber). The locked container cannot be the glove box, center console, or other utility box. https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/travel#:~:text=Pursuant%20to%20California%20Penal% 20Code,or%20in%20a%20locked%20container.

To me, this looks like, if the gun is concealed on your passenger's person, you would most likely not be criminally liable, but would most likely give PC to have your vehicle searched if stopped, and if the LEO discovered the gun.

If it was in the car, and not on your passenger's person, I think you are more liable (responsible) for the transportation of it, as it's your car and you're driving it.

I agree with the above and you need to understand what I put in bold. Don't get legal advise from a person of unknown expertise on the internet.

I have seen a case where someone driving was stopped and the passenger had illegal drugs. In that one instance, the LEO said if the passenger will admit that they didn't tell the drive and accept responsibility the driver wasn't arrested.

As with many times with traffic stops, it depends on the LEO and how you act. Start acting like a triggered jerk and the LEO will look for something to pin on you.

[juanbenae]

meant the links bleu provided Joe, but thanks for boldening it for me.

[Rick Lee]

HTF is anyone expected to know if a place gets 51% of their revenue from booze sales? AZ has an official "no guns" sign that has a gun on it that looks nothing like a real gun. And about 99% of the places that display a "no guns" sign don't display the only one that holds the force of law. And the 1% that do don't display it in the places required by the law to constitute due notice. And non-AZ residents are exempt from all this BS. They are simply not expected to know the law, so they can carry wherever. The bottom line is you can refuse to leave if asked, otherwise you risk a trespass cite. But then that pretty much goes everywhere in the US for most any reason.