Spoon build/assemble/buy options vs. uncle sammy

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Thinking of ar 10 type project, and trying to figure out which way to go in the spoon department. I'm not married to any one idea at this point.
This brings up the tinkerer in me, wanting to assemble something for the fun of it, rather than buying straight out.

ar 10 seem to be more finicky regarding fitment of different manufacturer parts than ar15 (well at least what I've read).

That brings up prebuilt, where everything has been pieced to match, and tested.

PSA seems to have some good deals on prebuilt long spoons, and parts in various states of assembly, but is there a real legal difference at the end of the day between getting a lower (part) with a serial # through an ffl and building, (I'd probably be more assembling) vs buying a complete spoon?

Seems like once something potentially gets banned, at very least the burden will be on the owner to register it "legally" and pay some registration tax, regardless of how it got assembled/bought, and any serial number will leave a trail.

If it gets too complicated, I'd just get a bolt action precision spoon, but I'm a lefty, so that seems more of a nuisance with a bolt action.

I swear there was an AR build thread here a while back.

You guys smart. Me stupid. Thoughts?

[masraum]

I think the build things are usually called 80/20 or 80% because they are 80% completed, but they do require some finishing of some parts. IIRC, that's the only way that you can go and have no SN. I have heard that you end up paying more going that route than buying already made.

Here are a couple of old threads.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1048184-anyone-complete-80-lower.html

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1120930-80-build-complexity-time-reliability-cost-etc.html

[Porchdog]

Some friends and I have finished 80% lowers. Those are partially machined forgings (or billet) where you complete the machining. There's currently no federal requirement that you add a serial number, so long as you aren't finishing them to sell. Local laws may vary.

I only have experience finishing them on a mill. It's pretty simple and straightforward. There are jigs out there that are intended to be used with a drill press and router, I have no experience with those.

The last time I looked for 80% lowers they were in short supply and more expensive than quality finished lowers. It's been a while, that may have changed.

A finished lower is considered a firearm, so you need to transfer it. If you do the transfer as a handgun, you can build either a handgun or rifle. If it starts out as a rifle it's always a rifle. Registration is dependent on local laws.

I have assembled a bunch or AR-15's for myself and helping friends. There are some basic tools that make it much easier, but it's not very challenging. My experience with PSA stuff has been good so far - it's not top shelf but it's all functional.

There is an advantage to the higher end parts when you want more accuracy / precision. Not just barrels, the higher end uppers and lowers fit together more tightly and provide more precise barrel seating.

To me, one of the biggest advantages of the AR-15 / AR-10 platforms is the variety of options that are available and the ease with which parts interchange. There are still a few things to worry about, like matching the bolt to the barrel and using the correct buffer, but you get lots of options.

[crb07]

Look at a Spc 6.8 upper. Drops on a ar-15 lower. You will also need mags. Projectory similar to 308. No new paperwork which is nice.

I got one from White Oak but have not even taken it out of the box.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

^Those were the threads I thought I remembered. Thanks! I couldn't remember the 80% part.

I think I feel the same way about the milling an unnumbered lower as some of the feedback in these threads, perhaps a fun project, but not necessarily economical compared to an off the shelf lower. I'm not going to buy a milling machine either for this, I've got enough big tools around the house.

I'm not out to build a 'ghost gun' either.

You've given me some morning reading. Thank you for the feedback

[Rick Lee]

If you build up an 80% lower and ever need a gunsmith to work on it, they have to engrave a serial number on it. Though you probably won't find any pro gunsmiths who will work on 80% built up guns.

[Arizona_928]

My favorite spoon is the one that I built.
Obsolete parts kit (or probably 4k on GB)
Better parts (barrels, ect)
Finishing to what color I wanted
Rails for optics

My next will be a HK build. I'm slowing piecing together the parts because I want a recent model.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I'm checking out the 6.8 upper right now.

This is such a rabbit hole of options. The claxton alarm on the "new hobby alert" is ringing full blast right now

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

My favorite spoon is the one that I built.
Obsolete parts kit (or probably 4k on GB)
Better parts (barrels, ect)
Finishing to what color I wanted
Rails for optics

My next will be a HK build. I'm slowing piecing together the parts because I want a recent model.

And this is the rabbit hole I speak of!!!
p.s.- show pics.

I guess, to conclude this, there is no reason legally to pursue a bought (finished) lower vs. a complete rifle. And in terms of complete lower, I am assuming "completely machined", not "completely built" as in trigger, safety, mag release, etc. installed.

Is that correct?

PS- I was at the spoon store today, looking at a 6.5 creedmoor AR platform, and some ruger precision rifles, but all the bolt actions are right handed. I could get a savage left handed bolt for a 110 precision, but none in stock. You can see how all over the place I am...
Thanks. Ron

[expatriot98]

If you go with an 80% lower, you'll have to buy or borrow a jig for the machining - or set up a mill.The jigs run $100 - $300. There's squishy legal stuff around it too - ghost guns and all that. And if you ever sell or transfer it, things can get complicated. No serial #'s so they aren't considered firearm in legal terms. That said, the machining process for an 80% takes some time but it's not that difficult.

Assembling an AR lower from parts isn't hard but you have to follow the process. And it's easier with some of the specialty punches and a mag well stand. Just know that you'll curse a lot trying to fit the front takdown pin...

Assembling an upper from parts can be done too if you want specific parts on the build. If not there are thousands of built uppers to choose from.

Watch Gun.deals.com for lots of options. Good luck!

[Rick Lee]

If it's homemade and not engraved, and you decide to sell it, they can't trace it at all without someone down the line helping them. Even then, they can't pin anything on you unless you talk. You don't need to engrave a gun built for personal use. If you decide it's not your thing and sell it, that gets into a grey area, and I don't want to help bad guys get guns at all. But it really can't come back to you unless they really have a good trail of online ads. Backpage is gone, Gunbroker wouldn't allow it and, well, use your best judgment.

[stevej37]

Huh?

[expatriot98]

One other thing - spend you money on a high quality 2 stage trigger.

[Rick Lee]

I just bought a full LPK with a Rise Armaments single stage 3.5 lbs trigger for less than the trigger costs by itself. I threw it into a lower build last week, will probably break it in at the range on Sunday. I always go shoot during the Super Bowl, as the range is empty then.

[stevej37]

Will it take out a full grown squirrel?
Anything less in unacceptable.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by expatriot98

One other thing - spend you money on a high quality 2 stage trigger.

This guy gets it.
Binary or forced reset only!

Stay away from PSA lowers. Anderson also makes a high quality budget lower.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by expatriot98

One other thing - spend you money on a high quality 2 stage trigger.

Truth.

I just spent a penny on an elftmann for my current 12 gauge "tacticool" Not a two stage, but. wow!what a difference. Perhaps in my application it didn't send a slug down a smooth bore barrel any more accurately, but, yes, I could feel the difference.

The precision rifle triggers I was pulling on last week put even the elftmann to shame.

With this build ( any AR platform) I'm thinking barrel, bolt carrier, and trigger.

In terms of a blank lower, I can't get my head around a buying HF milling tool that would help a lower machining in any recipe for overall success(speaking as a lover of HF), but perhaps a I need to consult some local friends in the know on this. Everything I have bought from HF might subtract one from the accuracy of +1 of the other items mentioned.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by stevej37

Will it take out a full grown squirrel?
Anything less in unacceptable.

I'm saving the golf course damnit!

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

This guy gets it.
Binary or forced reset only!

Stay away from PSA lowers. Anderson also makes a high quality budget lower.

Holy carp. I think I saw an anderson on the wall today at the store.

thanks. From my limited knowledge here.- What makes Anderson a better choice than PSA? From my little knowledge, I understand PSA as a plain jane type of application. Maybe a plain jane that got it's act together from feedback to minimally acceptable level.
I was just looking at Anderson (thanks to your post). Its about twice the price (for complete rifles) and looks sweet. What's the difference?

I'm looking at a 22 barrel creedmoor on the site right now. Im wondering if the muzzle velocity makes a difference over 20. I'm thinking 18-22. Really 20-22. I want to drive tacs.
I'm not really looking for 16 or less. That seems to get into a mess.

[stevej37]

^^^