Who Goes To Jail When Self-Driving Car Kills Someone?

[jyl]

Tesla is going to drive its automotive gross margins to/near zero, in hopes of creating a large installed base of cars to sell full self-driving software as a service.

Which means that Tesla will be in a position where it is financially compelled to push FSD into millions of cars whether it works safely or not.

You know that people will be sticking their 10 year olds into FSD cars and having the car take Junior to school, getting in FSD cars while drunk or high out of their minds, with no or revoked licenses, etc.

When a self-driving car kills someone, who is civilly liable? Who is criminally liable? The car’s owner? It’s occupant? The car’s manufacturer?

[McLovin]

My understanding is currently the driver is still fully responsible for control of the car. Notwithstanding Tesla’s somewhat (or very much, seemingly depending mostly on one’s political leanings) misleading “full self driving” label, when you read fine print and the warnings when engaging self driving, it’s made clear it is just an aid and the driver must be in full control (just like with old fashioned cruise control).

And that this will be the case until we reach level 5.

At that point, the mfr (or someone other than the “driver”) will be liable, since technically there is no human driver at that point.

[McLovin]

[McLovin]

I have a FSD Tesla, and have done thousands of FSD miles.

IMO it’s a pretty amazing driver’s aid, much more advanced than I would have thought possible 5 years ago. On the highway, but particularly in the city, which to me is a much, much harder task. Like 10x harder.

As an example, I have a 10 mile route that I often do. It’s a mix of mostly city and a couple miles of highway. Usually FSD gets e there with zero input from me. In other words, if no one was in the car, it would make it by itself. Pretty amazing, it’s stopping at red lights and stop signs, getting on and off the freeways, etc completely by itself.

But, it’s certainly still very early, and while to me it’s quite remarkable, it’s far from perfect. And, frankly, I’m not sure it ever can be, unless it’s operating on dedicated, controlled roads. With cross traffic, pedestrians, bicyclists, dogs, etc etc there’s just too many uncontrolled variables.

[McLovin]

So, imo in our lifetimes I believe the driver is going to remain liable.

[flatbutt]

So long as a "driver" has a manual over ride available they will be responsible.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Who Goes To Jail When Self-Driving Car Kills Someone?

Not AleC Baldwin

[GH85Carrera]

The real answer to the OP is no one yet knows.

There will indeed be a lawsuit filed when it happens. We all know that someday a drunk will get in the car at the bar, and program it to take them home, and fall asleep in the back seat, or as the OP said some parent will put their kid in a car and have it take them to school and them come back empty.

When some driverless car kills someone, and the family sues Tesla, or whatever maker, no one at all goes to jail, just a big payday, and media circus.

Someday when full automation arrives, and there are no user controls, few people will even own a car of their own. Just tap an app on the phone, and a car arrives, and takes you to where you need to go. Like Uber or Lyft with no humans.

Most of the public ones will get defiled quickly, and the operating service will hopefully have an entire staff to clean the interiors.

There will be a premium level service of upscale cars and only people with "gold" or "platinum" service will pay for that level of comfort and cleanliness. I hope that is available by the time I decide to stop driving because I no longer feel like I can drive safely. I have several decades before that point I hope.

[berettafan]

Similarly who goes to jail/pays fines/penalties when AI news spreads false info. Who is responsible for damages in that case?

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

The real answer to the OP is no one yet knows.

There will indeed be a lawsuit filed when it happens.

One just concluded.

https://www.theverge.com/2023/4/21/23693482/tesla-lawsuit-blamed-autopilot-crash

[McLovin]

Like I said, I’ve done thousands of miles in self drive mode.

While it is very advanced (and continues to advance), I can tell you if you don’t heed the instructions to always be alert and ready to take control of the car, you will eventually get into an accident.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Similarly who goes to jail/pays fines/penalties when AI news spreads false info. Who is responsible for damages in that case?

At the risk of hijacking jyl's thread, here's recent precedent. This might warrant a separate thread.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-04-23/magazine-apologises-schumacher-ai-interview-sacks-editor/102257394

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by McLovin

My understanding is currently the driver is still fully responsible for control of the car. Notwithstanding Tesla’s somewhat (or very much, seemingly depending mostly on one’s political leanings) misleading “full self driving” label, when you read fine print and the warnings when engaging self driving, it’s made clear it is just an aid and the driver must be in full control (just like with old fashioned cruise control).

And that this will be the case until we reach level 5.

At that point, the mfr (or someone other than the “driver”) will be liable, since technically there is no human driver at that point.

This.

Fun story.

As I've mentioned before my brother runs the shop for FL's largest Toyotas dealership.

They had a woman come in complaining that her "autodrive" was not working.

Naturally they were a bit confused WTF she was talking about so they said "show us"

My brother went for a ride with her and she took her hands off the wheel and the car did a reasonable job of staying in the lane but obviously eventually wandered out.

The woman thought the lane departure/steer assist feature meant the car would drive itself.

They are out there.

[jyl]

In the recent lawsuit, which Tesla won, Tesla's defense was that the owners' manual said not to use Autopilot in the city.

Even after Tesla releases what it markets as "full automation" (level 5), I expect the owners' manual will still say the driver must remain alert and ready to take over control. That will be in an attempt to preserve Tesla's legal defenses.

[911 Rod]

What's the point of having it if the driver is responsible?

[Arizona_928]

Driving aid like lane assist

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

What's the point of having it if the driver is responsible?

Unless it's an autonomous system that engages itself and does not allow for human input then whoever enabled the system is responsible for what it does.

[Tobra]

Depends on who the driver is. We have at least a double standard for everything in this country.

If it is Alex Baldwin, the person who delivered the car to him is going to prison.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by jyl

In the recent lawsuit, which Tesla won, Tesla's defense was that the owners' manual said not to use Autopilot in the city.

Even after Tesla releases what it markets as "full automation" (level 5), I expect the owners' manual will still say the driver must remain alert and ready to take over control. That will be in an attempt to preserve Tesla's legal defenses.

Autopilot and fsd are two separate things.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Driving aid like lane assist

Yes, it’s a pretty effective and comprehensive driver’s aid.

I have a relative in her late 70s that was an early adopter, she knows how to use it and it’s a life saver to her. She does a lot of driving, and it’s an important tool for her.

It definitely keeps the car in the lane, it has over the years for us been infallible in safely making lane changes, it is excellent at monitoring speed and braking. Also you plug in your destination and it navigates itself there.

One really has to understand what it is, and isn’t, and use it for a while to really know it.

Again, it’s early technology and there’s no doubt the public is being used as beta testers. Whether that’s good or bad for society overall and in the long run is, I suppose, subject to debate. But it is allowing for the technology to advance rapidly.

I do think Tesla calling it “Full Self Driving” wasn’t the best idea.