Should I rotate this mini-split (myself) 90 degrees?

[VenezianBlau 87]

Thanks Peter, but not quite done...
Indoor and outdoor unit operate but no cooling and lines are ambient temp. I had removed the insulation from both lines and there's not a kink in sight. No signs of refrigerant oil outside of system. Refrigerant was released after he vacuumed so that blows that theory.

This unit is a 240 volt, 30 amp breaker and 3 conductor line.

Why is the white conductor not used on the previous mini-split? Am I just getting 120 volts? It just rained and don't want to test on meter.

Thanks all!

[David]

The white should probably be on the ground bar with the green wire. A lot of times 220V is two hots (black and red) and a ground. Newer 220 is two hot, neutral (white) and ground.

[908/930]

The white is not used for 220v, leave it where it is.

30A breaker, what size are those wires feeding the AC disconnect? 30A should be at least 12ga, possibly 10ga. I will assume the conduit on the bottom right is going to the AC, really the wires from that should be on the load side. Will work fine but not really right. What size is the wire in the conduit?

If he evacuated the lines and evaporator likely will need to add more R410a, the pre-charged lines do not need any gas added.

[911 Rod]

Why is the wire coming from the backside of the box not secured?
(Nice job spinning it around)

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by David

The white should probably be on the ground bar with the green wire. A lot of times 220V is two hots (black and red) and a ground. Newer 220 is two hot, neutral (white) and ground.

Not quite.

If you need 120VAC for the device (e.g. power to a circuit board, or a 120VAC motor) then the neutral is needed. It looks like your device is strictly 220 VAC, so you do not need the neutral.

[David]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

Not quite.

If you need 120VAC for the device (e.g. power to a circuit board, or a 120VAC motor) then the neutral is needed. It looks like your device is strictly 220 VAC, so you do not need the neutral.

Gotcha. I'm thinking of current electric dryers which would have a circuit board so they have a neutral.

The smaller red and black wires are likely going to the wall unit which is also 220V but probably around 1 amp.

[VenezianBlau 87]

Thanks you guys for the last four responses...I didn't include a pic of my current box as I was afraid to shorten wires too much and now it looks a mess and hard to see anything. My electrician will shorten them up.

My new mini-split box is wired like the one above, but with 10- or 12 gauge with the addition of a surge protector.

HVAC guy ghosted me when I told him I didn't want him to relocate unit 90 degrees for $700.
He was going to find a longer pigtail but guess he figured the hell with that.
He didn't bother to come out and hook up unit to box Saturday.

Anyway I moved unit and hooked it up and double checked everything. 238v to line and load.
Everything works except no refrigerant moving around. I removed the line sleeves to check for kinks and none. He vacuumed system and released refrigerant from high side and then opened low side per manual. Even with top removed it's hard for me to identify components. What I think is the compressor and receiver/dryer get warm/hot to the touch but lines are pretty much ambient. There's no evidence refrigerant escaped as no oil on outside of circuit. I was reading installation/troubleshooting and there is a fuse somewhere. After that I'll call manufacturer and get a referral on somebody to do it right.

It's frustrating to fail but...

[David]

Hind sight is 20/20 but maybe should have sucked the refrigerant back into the compressor before rotating it, then recheck vacuum and release refrigerant again. When I installed mine, I couldn't pull vacuum and it was because I barely loosened the fittings to the wall unit when I hung it. Glad I caught it before opening the valve.

[908/930]

Did you check that the refrigerant valves are in fact open? He could have closed them again after to check if there was any pressure drop later.

Still like to know what size those feed lines are in the pic of the disconnect, and what breaker is on them? If the wires going out are correct there is no way the wires entering are.

[VenezianBlau 87]

908/930: I checked the hex fittings and they were open on high- and low side.
Those feed lines are on another mini-split box that's maybe two feet from main house panel in garage. They don't look very heavy gauge. It's a 30amp breaker in main panel.

David: I would've thought I'd hear and see some refrigerant/oil leaking when I rotated outside unit Saturday.
I gave my old threaded manifold gauge kit with screw on service lines to my friend up the street. my gauge kit has the snap on fittings.
I checked the price of R410A...naw, I've had enough and I know when things are going to crap..or already there...Not having the box connections in place before installation and then misplacement of outside unit started a chain reaction of failures. No sense going any further. Goddammed frustrating!

My electrician can shorten lines inside junction box so protective plates will fit and make sure box connections are correct. Then get a different installer to figure out mini-split problem.

[billybek]

I suspect that your installer heard the snakes leaking out when he let the refrigerant out of the condensing unit.
SSSSS.
Not enough money in the job (in his opinion) to make it right.
Have someone come out and nitrogenize the system and leak check. Unsure if these little splits would have a low pressure or out of charge switch that would keep the compressor from running.
Sucks to deal with tradesmen that operate this way but the vast majority of qualified tradesmen are honest people. YMMV.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by David

Gotcha. I'm thinking of current electric dryers which would have a circuit board so they have a neutral.

The smaller red and black wires are likely going to the wall unit which is also 220V but probably around 1 amp.

The heater element is 240VAC, the motor is 120VAC. Old dryers are strictly mechanical controls, timers and contacts.

The (suspiciously) smaller wires are the load, so they go straight to the mini-split, but it's not 1 Amp...

[VenezianBlau 87]

Billy, you made excellent points. I’ve wondered why the compressor/receiver would get hot with no refrigerant (I suspect) moving through the system. I figured there would be a low/high pressure shutoff switch to protect compressor. So I just turned off so it wouldn’t keep running. It only has one service port coming off the low pressure fitting. It’s not like every vehicle AC system I’ve worked on or completely replaced as in Porsche, that was a relative breeze compared to this. I’ll plan something later as new challenges popped up yesterday and this morning. Makes me wonder why I retired and replaced one frustration with a bunch of small ones.

[VenezianBlau 87]

I'm going to call my builders and see if the guy in charge can refer an installer to finish the job and figure out why system operates but doesn't circulate refrigerant.

As a parting shot I sent this to HVAC guy who didn't finish job last Saturday. He's done other installs here with no problem. In the messages prior to this he was going to find a longer pigtail and wire it up and offered to rotate unit 90 degrees. I said let's leave it where it is and just finish the job by hooking up the power and test. Then crickets and my first message at top.

[Tim Hancock]

I just installed two outdoor mini split systems each feeding two indoor units over the past few weeks.

Mine required 25 amp fuse protection. I installed outdoor AC disconnect boxes and flexible conduit whips to the unit using all 10 ga wire but 12 would have likely been ok. I bought a HF vac pump and I already had a set of old r12 ac gauges. When I went to pull a vacuum, I found that one needs a special adapter fitting to attach my ac gauge/pump to the schrader valve of the minisplit outdoor unit. They sell them on Amazon for like $8 but I ended up borrowing one from a friend who does HVAC work.
I did not first pressurize my linesets with nitrogen. Instead once lines were hooked up, I pulled vacuum for about 45 minutes on each circuit and then isolated pump from system to watch for bleed off on gauge. Once satisfied all vacuum was holding, I disconnected Shrader valve fitting at unit. Once all that done, I slowly opened all the hex valves and low and behold all the units work properly. (I got lucky)

Family room and 1 bedroom supplying unit.




2nd unit powers two bedroom units




You can see the brass adapter I borrowed in this pic

[VenezianBlau 87]

Mine only has a service port on the low side and only two lines total. In theory I could've done our three mini-splits myself but not up to physical task of it since around 2020.

[908/930]

Some of the mini splits do not have pressure switches. If you get your electrician in have him look at the wires feeding the other AC unit in the pic, I think I see 10GA on the larger wire so likely the smaller is 14ga, way too small for 30A breaker. And have him put the lines on the correct Line / Load side. There is a possibility that your installer had a problem and is not just ignoring you, I doubt it but it is possible.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by VenezianBlau 87

Mine only has a service port on the low side and only two lines total. In theory I could've done our three mini-splits myself but not up to physical task of it since around 2020.

I originally was going to pay someone to install a system on our house but his quote was for 13.5k..... I about crapped my self. I was thinking it would be more like 8k installed. It took me several weeks to figure it all out and get it all done, but I just couldn't bare the thought of 13.5k lol.

Ended up an old coworker works for Bosch now and he was able to get me a discount... All in with linesets, base pads, wiring stuff and my homemade line set covers (PVC downspout) I am at about 4k.

They sure beat our old noisy window AC units I had to haul out of the basement each year. Will probably help with our heat bills this winter also as they are more efficient than our existing electric house heat system.

[VenezianBlau 87]

Yes Tim, they're quiet on the inside and out and boy do they work. I thought $1,600 installation each was a lot for the three we have! Of course running the load lines and rigging up the box was separate but included with a bunch of other projects.

908: I'm going to have my electrician replace those thin load lines in the other box and correct load/line miswiring. He agreed to shorten the load lines and surge protector lines in the box related to the mini-split that doesn't blow cold. Not sure what you mean in the last sentence but I suspect he knows the refrigerant somehow escaped after vacuuming (or doing the vacuum) For some reason he had another guy helping him and he may have released refrigerant prematurely. I believe everything's hooked up correctly electrically. I don't have my old schrader valve manifold lines to test but learned from experience that when I get this frustrated I need to let it go. Can't wait till I can get to my Porsche projects.

[Tim Hancock]

Originally Posted by VenezianBlau 87

Yes Tim, they're quiet on the inside and out and boy do they work. I thought $1,600 installation each was a lot for the three we have! Of course running the load lines and rigging up the box was separate but included with a bunch of other projects.

$1600 each including the minisplit systems or was that just for installation of minisplits that you bought yourself? 1.6k x 3 units = 4.8k which sounds pretty good if it included the units plus installation.

My quote I mentioned earlier for 13.5 included everything.... 1 large outdoor unit that would service 4 indoor units and all plumbing/wiring along with installation.