GFCI Question

[Rtrorkt]

For the brain trust
I have a GFI circuit that is cold. I have been looking for the control outlet with no success. There is one in my laundry room that seems the most likely though that outlet is hot and the trip works.

Is it possible for the GFCI outlet to work, the trip works but the downstream circuit has no power?

[Chocaholic]

Check to see if the GFCI is at the circuit breaker rather than the outlet.

Seems I recall this same question a few weeks ago.

[masraum]

I would say that for any circuit (with or w/o GFCI) it's possible for one or more points on the circuit to work and then one or more other parts downstream to not work. Although that would, I would think, almost have to be caused by wiring issues.

I suppose it's possible that there could be an issue with the GFCI mechanism that could cause a lack of juice downstream, but I don't know for sure. I assume they are pretty basic, and if the two buttons appear to work normally, then I would expect the power to work through it as expected.

What seems most likely is a bad/loose connection somewhere or another GFCI somewhere that you're not aware of.

[look 171]

Check your wiring to and out of the GFI. Did it always worked or something you did?

Process of elimination. Disconnect everything and just wire nut up all the wires and see if you have power down stream. If you have power, then the GFI outlet itself is bad, pretty common.

[Bugsinrugs]

I had an issue where the light in the garage wouldn’t work. The switch was hot but not the fixture. Turned out to be a loose wire in a bathroom GFCI. The wires were not screwed in but plugged into the little holes in the back. Electrician I hired started tugging on wires and a neutral came right out. Visually it looked fine.

[Rtrorkt]

thank you. Just circuit just stopped working. Been some time now. I think I did need to reset that GFCI trip on the outlet but no power downstream. All outlets are labeled with the same GFCI circuit note. Have not pulled the outlet. It does seem strange that the circuit was working fine then it wasn't. I hate dealing with electricity so I think a professional is in my future.

[Superman]

I'd turn off the breaker and then, treating things as if they were hot (you never know....), I'd pull the outlet out, turn the breaker back on, and test conductors/connections. Like Steve said, this is probably a wire that has come loose but by testing, you would either find the failed connection or you would verify the fault is inside the outlet.

[Superman]

Or you would find that everything in that box is okay, which would mean the problem is downstream.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by look 171

Check your wiring to and out of the GFI. Did it always worked or something you did?

Process of elimination. Disconnect everything and just wire nut up all the wires and see if you have power down stream. If you have power, then the GFI outlet itself is bad, pretty common.

there you have it. They do just go bad.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

I had an issue where the light in the garage wouldn’t work. The switch was hot but not the fixture. Turned out to be a loose wire in a bathroom GFCI. The wires were not screwed in but plugged into the little holes in the back. Electrician I hired started tugging on wires and a neutral came right out. Visually it looked fine.

I've heard/read that those rear connections aren't the best to use, easy but not reliable.

[masraum]

Genius of look to remove the outlet, connect the wires and see if downstream works. If that makes you nervous you could even just pop a standard outlet in temporarily to test.

I've not run into a bad GFCI, but it makes sense that could be the issue.

[Zeke]

If you even have thoughts about electricity, do hire it out. One way to get something for your money (service call + time) is to identify any other issues and get it all done at one visit, e.g., if you've ever thought of having an extra outlet....

[Gogar]

Just Pull it and check the lines to it. stop guessing! Worth the hassle

[look 171]

There's isn't a real need to disconnect the wires. Pull out the gfi outlet, so you can access the back side. Put a simple tester, no need for a fancy fluke, to the two wires coming into the GFI outlet. Then take the tester on the hot and natural wires going out. If there's power, then is the outlet down stream. I bet you there's no power on the output side. If you have no tester, they run about 15 bucks for a very simple one, just buy a new GFI and swap out the old. I bet there's your problem if not, tighten wire nuts, or clamp screws on the GFI or other outlets. I have had wire nuts come loose on me causing intermittent connection. Please shut off the breaker on the main panel to that circuit before you monkey with it. You do not look good with curly hair BTW.

[drew1]

I'm no electrician. I have learned from some good ones.

One of those voltsticks is good to have. A Cat 3 or 4 because it is real important to check wires under a house before cutting in to splice something. You are grounded under a house and 110V can kill. These voltsticks are small and handier than a meter since they can read the voltage through insulation. Even an amp clamp on a Fluke takes current flowing to measure. A voltstick will show that volts are available.

Check it out by sticking the tip in a good outlet so that you know it works. Then do what look 171 says. Hot wire checks good, disconnect any other hot wires and recheck outlet, As look says it could be downstream. Helping a daughter with no work Christmas ,a dead regular outlet was on the front porch. Hot wire was dead. My grandson had a lot more fun than me crawling under the house trying to chase a dead wire. Found a tripped GFI outlet that was hidden behind a cabinet in the garage.

One of those voltsticks is handy. Won't read through metal conduit, bit will find a hot wire inside sheetrock.

[1990C4S]

The answer to your question is no. If the GFCI is wired properly, it cannot drop power downstream while the GFCI stays live.

But you could easily have a bad connection in the GFCI box that kills the (unprotected) downstream outlet(s).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by drew1

I'm no electrician. I have learned from some good ones.

One of those voltsticks is good to have. A Cat 3 or 4 because it is real important to check wires under a house before cutting in to splice something. You are grounded under a house and 110V can kill. These voltsticks are small and handier than a meter since they can read the voltage through insulation. Even an amp clamp on a Fluke takes current flowing to measure. A voltstick will show that volts are available.

Check it out by sticking the tip in a good outlet so that you know it works. Then do what look 171 says. Hot wire checks good, disconnect any other hot wires and recheck outlet, As look says it could be downstream. Helping a daughter with no work Christmas ,a dead regular outlet was on the front porch. Hot wire was dead. My grandson had a lot more fun than me crawling under the house trying to chase a dead wire. Found a tripped GFI outlet that was hidden behind a cabinet in the garage.

One of those voltsticks is handy. Won't read through metal conduit, bit will find a hot wire inside sheetrock.

THey are awesome. Klein $19
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Non-Contact-Voltage-Tester-Pen-50-1000V-AC-NCVT1PR/317460355
or
https://www.amazon.com/Non-Contact-Detector-Klein-Tools-NCVT1P/dp/B099SJ6469/


These are also a must have, IMO. You can confirm outlet wiring and they'll test a GFCI. And I think they are supposed to be a better test than the button on the GFCI, but I don't remember exactly what I read.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

The answer to your question is no. If the GFCI is wired properly, it cannot drop power downstream while the GFCI stays live.

But you could easily have a bad connection in the GFCI box that kills the (unprotected) downstream outlet(s).

Aren't outlets downstream of a GFCI protected by the GFCI? That's why you can have a kitchen full of outlets with only one GFCI but all of the outlets are protected. If you've got a circuit with (from the breaker) 2 outlets, then a GFCI and then 2 more outlets, then the GFCI and last 2 would be protected, but the first two (closest to the breaker) would not be protected. And those two would be considered downstream while the 2 unprotected ones would be considered upstream.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by masraum

Aren't outlets downstream of a GFCI protected by the GFCI? That's why you can have a kitchen full of outlets with only one GFCI but all of the outlets are protected. If you've got a circuit with (from the breaker) 2 outlets, then a GFCI and then 2 more outlets, then the GFCI and last 2 would be protected, but the first two (closest to the breaker) would not be protected. And those two would be considered downstream while the 2 unprotected ones would be considered upstream.

This was the original question: Is it possible for the GFCI outlet to work, the trip works but the downstream circuit has no power?


Downstream IS protected, but only when the GFCI trips. So if the GFCI is on, and the downstream is connected to the GFCI output side, what he described can't/shouldn't happen.

The two outlets closest to the breaker in your scenario are upstream, and if they are live, then the GFCI input power is probably also live.

His scenario does not sound like a GFCI issue, it sounds like a bad connection in a box.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

This was the original question: Is it possible for the GFCI outlet to work, the trip works but the downstream circuit has no power?


Downstream IS protected, but only when the GFCI trips. So if the GFCI is on, and the downstream is connected to the GFCI output side, what he described can't/shouldn't happen.

The two outlets closest to the breaker in your scenario are upstream, and if they are live, then the GFCI input power is probably also live.

His scenario does not sound like a GFCI issue, it sounds like a bad connection in a box.

Op mentioned downstream outlet has no power not up.