Why do we ruin our cars?

[unclebilly]

A race track that I used to enjoy racing at was sold 11 years ago to a trucking company who just used the shop as a warehouse and the pits and paddock for equipment storage… in the last couple years, they have allowed some individuals to rent the facility in the summer for racing…

This track is unique in that it is suitable for Time Attack, Kart Racing, and Bike Racing. I came across some events there on Motorsport.reg and signed my son up for a kart event on Friday night and a Time Attack event last night (I won with my Spec Miata). I mentioned it to a friend that I used to to Time Attack with (at this track from 08-11) and he signed up as well.

Both of us still have our cars that are now collectable (him - Heavily modified Fox Body Mustang, me heavily modified 77 911). Neither of us brought out our old track cars last night.

So here’s the thing, we buy these cars that we love, we spend a fortune on them making them ‘race cars’ and spend a pile of time working on them. Eventually they get to the point that they are still sorta street legal, they have no more street manners, and are terrible to drive after the first 5 minutes.

2 weeks ago, I did a 200 mile road trip in my 911. It is loud, has uncomfortable race seats, 6 point harnesses, no radio but you couldn’t hear it anyway, no AC, rides like a lumber wagon, but sure looks cool.

Have I become an old man? Why did I ruin this car? I have no idea what to do with it. I might put the interior back to close to stock or do something like a Singer interior - we will see. It does need sound deadening - it has none. I have no plans to race vintage with it given that I have the Miata which is arguably more fun.

[GH85Carrera]

Back in 1974 when I was a young pup, I had a 74 914 2.0 I ordered new from the local dealer to be my car. I autocrossed the heck out of that thing, and soon realized, just drive it to the track, have fun, win a trophy to put in the attic, was enough.

I have had my 85 911 for 27 years now.



I have driven it on several tracks, 41 states and Canada.
Left to right:

Hallett, in Oklahoma
Texas World in Ft. Worth, TX and now just a parking lot.
Charlotte Superspeedway.
Roebling Road, outside of Savannah, GA
Laguna Seecca, in CA
Indy 500 track
Eagles Canyon outside of Decatur, Texas.

I have avoided modifying my car into a track only car, as I like to drive it on the street.

I am far from the fastest on track as any "sporty" modern car has way more technology and is faster on track. A new GT3RS is a ton faster, but the driver is not have one iota more fun than I am in my 100% analog driver car with no driver aids at all.

My 911 is worth more than four times what I paid for it and it ain't for sale at any reasonable price. I plan to drive it until I can't get in or out of it easily.

[Baz]

The answer is some of us want to have fun with our toys and modification to run at the track helps us do just that.

Like you, Billy, I also have toys I leave unmolested.

It's different for everyone.

I have no regrets doing the mods on my '81 911 - and had my share of fun driving on the track. After a while I got bored with it so sold the car and moved on.

Circle of life.....

[KNS]

I've read countless threads in the Tech forum about guys ripping out all the sound deadening and insulation in the quest for "lightness" and then complain about how loud and uncivilized the car is.

[Zeke]

I'd sell it or take it back to near stock. I think my street/track/R Gruppe car was better when I finished it. If you can find the right bar/shock package it will still handle but not be a buckboard. Definitely a thumbs up on redoing the interior but IDK about Singer. Great wheels and tires make all the difference. This won't be cheap, will it?

[Ralph3.]

Same car you drove to Luft 9?

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

A race track that I used to enjoy racing at was sold 11 years ago to a trucking company who just used the shop as a warehouse and the pits and paddock for equipment storage… in the last couple years, they have allowed some individuals to rent the facility in the summer for racing…

This track is unique in that it is suitable for Time Attack, Kart Racing, and Bike Racing. I came across some events there on Motorsport.reg and signed my son up for a kart event on Friday night and a Time Attack event last night (I won with my Spec Miata). I mentioned it to a friend that I used to to Time Attack with (at this track from 08-11) and he signed up as well.

Both of us still have our cars that are now collectable (him - Heavily modified Fox Body Mustang, me heavily modified 77 911). Neither of us brought out our old track cars last night.

So here’s the thing, we buy these cars that we love, we spend a fortune on them making them ‘race cars’ and spend a pile of time working on them. Eventually they get to the point that they are still sorta street legal, they have no more street manners, and are terrible to drive after the first 5 minutes.

2 weeks ago, I did a 200 mile road trip in my 911. It is loud, has uncomfortable race seats, 6 point harnesses, no radio but you couldn’t hear it anyway, no AC, rides like a lumber wagon, but sure looks cool.

Have I become an old man? Why did I ruin this car? I have no idea what to do with it. I might put the interior back to close to stock or do something like a Singer interior - we will see. It does need sound deadening - it has none. I have no plans to race vintage with it given that I have the Miata which is arguably more fun.

Everything I've done over the last few decades just made the car more nasty to live with, LOL. We are both on the same page.

Now, where can I get some nice sheepskin seat covers?

rjp

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Ralph3.

Same car you drove to Luft 9?

No - that was my 930.

[wildthing]

I always keep in mind that my wife will from time to time ride my car (like this morning we went to a PCA Cars & Coffee). And so as soon as I start thinking, maybe I'll get thicker torsion bars and adjustable suspension, or even Recaro Pole Position Classic, or even replacing the stock exhaust, I remind myself of this.

Ok maybe I will get thicker torsion bars and sway bars but nothing else.

[Alan A]

Make it quiet as possible. Make it comfortable to sit in.

My TR was modded to the point I couldn’t sit in it for more than an hour without pain. Removing all the track-style stuff and putting rebuilt stock seats and a regular 3 point seatbelt made it far more liveable.

[asphaltgambler]

.........and therein lies the challenge whether you're discussing an old 911, muscle car, old motorcycle. You want want all the performance, handling, less weight until the project crosses that line where now it's past being streetable in the real sense. It's our never-ending quest for 'more' of _________________________.

Most of you know that while I'm a 911 guy, other passions such as drag racing, motorcycle drag racing, hot-rods came well before anything European. After building countless projects both 4 and 2 wheel, and even 1 that floated on water, I know all too well passing over that line resulted in being less enjoyable overall after the fact, than I would care to admit. Also, as technology has evolved in our everyday cars, trucks, motorcycles, boats that we have become accustomed to great performance, great handling, and being comfortable even in the most boring modern car or motorcycle. So we all, as enthusiasts want the same 'experience' in our vintage cars or motorcycles. Like trying to put that 'magic' in through tons of $$$$ and time in a vehicle where it never existed on its best day when new.

I can now say with decades of doing restorations, modifications, and scratch builds give me project idea, your budget and I'll show almost exactly where it crosses that line.

I was fortunate to ride in a few examples of some serious high performance 911's @25 years ago. From that, I knew when the time came, I wanted more than stock, but I was not going to gut it or make it so loud or uncomfortable to ride around town or take on trips, and that's exactly what I did.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

My G-body 3.6L track car needs the following minimal mods to get back on the street with AZ registration.
1. GT3 Muffler onto GT headers.
2. Some modern Boxster seats and interior noise damping covered by a carpet kit.
3. Remove half of the UK built Safety Systems bolted roll cage (don't have to torch cut @ roofline)
4. New modern headlights and turn signals.
5. 964 Nose piece with center oil cooler space mod.
6. Some restored doors w/ electric windows. (wish I didn't sell originals now)
7. New paint job with pro help.

Give me a est. price for all please?

[asphaltgambler]

^^^^^^^^that sir, would be an arm AND a leg. Possibly more body parts if you have pay someone else to do it as well

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

Give me a est. price for all please?

My guess is $30-$40k but I sent the to-do list to my pal who is more 911 refab worldly.

Just a line in the sand. Not up for crucifixion just this second.

Edit: Pal says $25k in parts. Probably ten labor if you pay a more upscale pro vs the guy Tom Hanks said on Saturday Night Live Jeopardy will do anything for $40.

Just joking but you know what I am saying.

He followed with $40k alone is enough if you have a pro disassemble, strip and repaint. Yikes.

[ted]

In my younger years I wanted dual purpose.
My priority was to always to be able to drive my track car on the street and not have to wait for until the next track day.
A heavily modified 911, a Corvette track car and some drag bugs that were street legal and fun on track.
Yeah they were a bit uncomfortable on the street and they were compromised on the track.
Flammable interior materials, easy to over heat factory transmissions and engines, difficult to dissipate heat, under sized wheel bearings, unnecessary street legal equipment, difficult to work on etc...
It was the performance and safety compromises on track that led me to sell the modified street cars.

I switched to tube chassis dedicated race cars, they are safer and do everything better on track, also fun and easy to work on at home.

Choosing either heavily modified production cars or tube chassis race cars was an easy choice for me.
Sold the modified street legal 911 and Vette, kept both the tube chassis race cars.
Not sure why it took me so long to figure it out.

[Bill Douglas]

I don't.

Original other than a slightly later SC engine that had been balanced and SSIs added. And 8" wheels at the back. It already had Recaros and bilsteins. So looks and behaves like factory.

[Superman]

I don't personally feel there is any such thing as a dual-purpose street/track car. Such a car would be a compromise and would do both jobs poorly. That said, my 911 has 22/29 torsion bars and shocks valved to match, and some other non-stock goodies like 20/21 cams and SSIs. My car is a street car, but with a non-mushy suspension and an engine that breathes better.

When we make these mods, I am not so sure we "ruin" them so much as we make them more challenging to return to stock. Full race 911s are not good candidates for this.

Build your car the way you like. Drive it and enjoy. And just be aware that if you go too far down that high-performance road then you will either be building a race car or a street car that is no fun to drive on the street.

[unclebilly]

You all make great points. Ted - when our local track closed I was about to buy a retired NASCAR car as my race car as a next step… we lost our track so I didn’t.

AG - I think this is why I like my Cayenne Turbo S so much, it does everything pretty well and is super comfortable to drive even with 520 HP.

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by Superman

I don't personally feel there is any such thing as a dual-purpose street/track car. Such a car would be a compromise and would do both jobs poorly. That said, my 911 has 22/29 torsion bars and shocks valved to match, and some other non-stock goodies like 20/21 cams and SSIs. My car is a street car, but with a non-mushy suspension and an engine that breathes better.

When we make these mods, I am not so sure we "ruin" them so much as we make them more challenging to return to stock. Full race 911s are not good candidates for this.

Build your car the way you like. Drive it and enjoy. And just be aware that if you go too far down that high-performance road then you will either be building a race car or a street car that is no fun to drive on the street.

Yes. I have 22/29's and proper shocks on my street 911. Would I drive it on a 350 mi road trip to Philly on 95? Hell no. Would I drive it thru WVa and western Pa for 350 mi? Hell yes.
I have other cars that are suited to other tasks. The 911 is hard, but purposefully.
As to the op, yeah, you need to recognize where the inflection point is. I wouldn't ever "track" a street car, although I might do DE, which is different in my mind from "track". One recognizes that the vehicle isn't optimized, the other requires it.

[jhynesrockmtn]

My son now has my old 911 track car but it has the original interior stored. It is partially stripped with some recaro semi race seats. I am redoing the suspension on one of my 914's and I'm guessing we'll do his at some point and take it back closer to stock. It is squeeky, noisy and rough. Some softer bushings, a quieter muffler, put the original seats back in and it would be fine.