Electrical fun at home for the other Steve

masraum · 06:56 PM

I had my own electrical fun at home today. Mine wasn't as exciting as Steve's.
I got home from work and sat down to eat. The missus went upstairs to the old second bathroom to do some demo. The walls are pine 1x8 nailed directly to the studs. The missus started to pull one of the boards out in the middle of one wall. She came downstairs and said, "a spark came out from behind a board that I was taking out." I had my headphones on and took them off to listen to her. After her statement is when I noticed that the HVAC fan wasn't running. Sheiße!

I got the board off of the wall. That's when I noticed that one of the 3" finishing nails that they'd used to nail the board to the stud had pierced the 6/2 wiring for the indoor portion of the AC. I suspect they'd gotten really lucky when they drove the nail in cutting the insulation but not all of the way to the wire. I think when the missus pulled the board partially out, it pulled the nail partially out, and then the board propelled the nail back into the wire cutting there insulation the rest of the way.

I've done a lot of electrical work, but I have to admit that working with 6awg wire, two of them, was a little more daunting. But I got it fixed temporarily. I'll install a box and resplice three wires again, probably this weekend. I think I had the adv back up and working in about 1.5 hours.

It's weird, for the first 1.5 - 2 years that we lived here I was always a little scared that if we left the house we would come back to ashes. I've never worried about a house burning down before even when we lived in a house with aluminum wiring, but I spent a lot of time worrying about this one burning down.

Bugsinrugs · 09-20-2023, 05:27 AM

I worry about everything. My wife tells me to stop worrying about things you can’t control but it’s in my DNA. When wonky things happen around here I’m often heard saying” I knew that was going to happen”

masraum · 09-20-2023, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugsinrugs

I worry about everything. My wife tells me to stop worrying about things you can’t control but it’s in my DNA. When wonky things happen around here I’m often heard saying” I knew that was going to happen”

That's the weird thing, I usually don't worry. And it's not like this house has 100 year old knob and tube wiring. The folks that owned it ~1990 replaced all of the wiring and electrical, installed all new plumbing, and central HVAC. I think almost all of what they installed is still running including the HVAC.

We lived in a home with Aluminum wiring for 17-18 years. I've seen sparks coming from outlets and switches. I never worried about fires there. Here, I had a weird thing that every time we both left the house, I was afraid that it was going to burn down. No idea why. It's very out of character for me to be like that.

Yesterday, when I pulled the board out, I could see a nail going into a stud with romex running through a hole right behind it. Then looking in the hole, I saw black on the insulation around a hole in the insulation. And this wire had two 6awg conductors and a pretty heavy ground wire. I'm glad that it didn't get the missus through the nail or anything like that.

stevej37 · 09-20-2023, 06:34 AM

It's stressful until the problem is fixed.

In my case, the fix happened quite fast...but then there's the part of replacing all that was damaged.

Lucky that she happened to notice the spark.

70SATMan · 09-20-2023, 06:44 AM

Installing a splice box is ok if you can access it from outside the wall. Putting in a splice box and then walling it up is I believe not to code. Might want to consider that when repairing.

masraum · 09-20-2023, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevej37

It's stressful until the problem is fixed.

In my case, the fix happened quite fast...but then there's the part of replacing all that was damaged.

Lucky that she happened to notice the spark.

Right, my stress was through the roof because I checked all of the breakers and they all seemed to be "on" but I still didn't have juice at the wire. I flipped the double pole breakers off and back on and still didn't have juice (I can only assume that I missed the one). I had been troubleshooting for about an hour and flipped the one breaker again (for the first time?) and that was the issue. Once I was sure getting the breaker back on got juice to the wires, my stress dropped way down because I was pretty sure that I could splice the wires and fix the issue. Our high today is 97 and the low this morning was 70. It's not really the time of year when you want the AC to be dead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Installing a splice box is ok if you can access it from outside the wall. Putting in a splice box and then walling it up is I believe not to code. Might want to consider that when repairing.

Yep, absolutely. I've seen enough of the old Mike Holmes shows to know not to wall up the box. This room is going to be a closet and we'll be putting in sheetrock, so having a visible/accessible box is not a big deal. I'm considering swapping what I currently have (2 giant wire nuts) for one of these two items.

908/930 · 908/930's Garage

They used 3" nails? WTF there is a reason drywall screws are short and the hole for wire should be in the centre of the stud. You are lucky that it did not burn down the house while you were in it. They are requiring arc fault breakers up here on more circuits to protect people from crappy trades work on new houses.

masraum · 09-20-2023, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 908/930

They used 3" nails? WTF there is a reason drywall screws are short and the hole for wire should be in the centre of the stud. You are lucky that it did not burn down the house while you were in it. They are requiring arc fault breakers up here on more circuits to protect people from crappy trades work on new houses.

Yep, loooong nail. I just double checked. Most of the nails that they used were 1.5", but this one particular nail measures 2 5/8", so I guess it's a 2 1/2". The burned spot is 1/2" from the tip.

908/930 · 908/930's Garage

A nail in the coffin, or one that would put you there.

1990C4S · 09-20-2023, 09:38 AM

I would not rate those butt splicers as 'superior' to a properly installed wire nut.

masraum · 09-20-2023, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

I would not rate those butt splicers as 'superior' to a properly installed wire nut.

OK, good to know. I'd wondered about that. I think I've got a pretty good handle on proper use of a wire nut. WHen I'm done with a nut, the joint is very solid, even if you remove the nut. I watched a couple of videos on use of wire nuts on 6awg just to make sure that there wasn't a big difference.

URY914 · URY914's Garage

Steve, maybe I missed it but when was the house built?

masraum · 09-20-2023, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by URY914

Steve, maybe I missed it but when was the house built?

I've got 2 dates. The county says "1920" but the folks that bought and rennovated it in the early 90s said that they found a board in a wall that said "built by W F Ermis Oct 1924" (WF Ermis was the original home owner). The folks that rennovated the home in the 90s (90/91) rewired the whole thing with modern wiring, outlets, switches, etc...

Zeke · 09-20-2023, 11:59 AM

There are now code compliant in-the-wall splices. Since you have no need for 240v in the house ( I assume the air handler is 240 being 6/2 ga.) and you can't tap into (or shouldn't') a dedicated seemingly higher amp circuit for a common wall receptacle.

masraum · 09-20-2023, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeke

There are now code compliant in-the-wall splices. Since you have no need for 240v in the house ( I assume the air handler is 240 being 6/2 ga.) and you can't tap into (or shouldn't') a dedicated seemingly higher amp circuit for a common wall receptacle.

What? Thats the perfect place to do that. Run a whole new circuit off of one leg of the AC circuit!

look 171 · 09-20-2023, 04:06 PM

Use wire nuts Steve.