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-   -   Oven heating element in water (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/1148323-oven-heating-element-water.html)

flatbutt 10-25-2023 07:22 AM

This may be wacky but how about heating smaller volumes then upping the volume incrementally?

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 07:42 AM

I need to boil continuously for about 10-15 minutes.

herr_oberst 10-25-2023 07:47 AM

I know you've probably built your tank already, but I'd be inclined to talk to a sheetmetal guy about building a tank and using a series of propane burners as the heat source. Or building a tank and scabbing together a series of electric burners from an old stove. It seems like your need to immerse the heat source is going to be your achilles heel on the project.

911 Rod 10-25-2023 07:50 AM

I think a gas beer kettle is the way to go. So many brew places have gone under I would think you could find used if they haven't already been scraped.

LWJ 10-25-2023 07:52 AM

Shaun,

I worked at a large aluminum manufacturer in years back. We had two anodizing lines. One was huge. One was smaller. You are running a similar process. I would suggest reaching out to anodizing / plating industry people. There are commercially viable solutions to your questions currently being offered. You will want consistency and repeatability in your process. I don't think a stove burner will give you this in the long run.

Good luck! Just my $.02 worth.

id10t 10-25-2023 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun @ Tru6 (Post 12117420)
very quick google search, water heating elements don't get very hot so a stove element would be best I think. Steve, have to do inside though I could use my Cerakote paint room that is vented of course. But, I have to make the bath out of plywood lined with EPDM so no fire.

Do you have natural gas service? Going w same concept as the lp burner but with indoor safe gas. Admit it you really need a good wok burner in the shop to make lunch

aschen 10-25-2023 08:15 AM

big burner they sell for crawfish boils would be better. There a re large scale imersion heaters. A quick serach, but I am sure there are cheaper varients.

https://spacare.com/hydroquipbaptistery6kw220voltsimmersionheaterbis-60-240.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAjw-eKpBhAbEiwAqFL0mjB-l7xrnvRC4OO4gdYhnbaDQxTgtDANQJ0ZEmFgEsSh0e4Jozw_9h oCiDIQAvD_BwE


There is alot of thermal energy in heating 50g of water to 100 deg c liquid, then there is a ton more to take it to rapid boil as you are constantly losing the imense heat of vaporization.

Not sure what wattage you would need, depends on alot of factors like time and ambient conditions however. Buring things will be alot cheaper than relying on angry electrons.

flipper35 10-25-2023 08:44 AM

Morebeer.com has the single coil elements you want.

908/930 10-25-2023 08:59 AM

How much electrical power do you have? If the online calc I looked at is right to bring 50gal from 68F to 210F with 30,000w (that is 136A at 220V) will take about 35min. Will need a very well insulated tank.

greglepore 10-25-2023 10:43 AM

Its bad for the element because bubbles form. Any immersion heater needs constant water contact. I'd look for a couple 3000w immersion heaters and some means to circulate the water so that the area around the heaters isn't above the temp of the water bath.

TimT 10-25-2023 02:08 PM

Something like this?

https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/16-x-30-gas-fired-finisher-evaporator-customize-it/

https://www.smokylakemaple.com/wp-co...isher-evap.jpg

https://bascommaple.com/cdn/shop/pro...g?v=1564442572

Quote:

Speed of Bringing Room-Temp Sap to a Boil = Under 8 minutes (assuming 2" depth)
The boiling point of sap is higher than water due to the sugars

Some of the larger Sugar houses have very large pans.... They use wood, gas or oil fires I've never seen one that used electric elements... I sense there is a reason for that.

john70t 10-25-2023 03:04 PM

There are many industrial water-purpose electric elements available online galore.
For a price..

Whatever the purpose keep in mind that stainless steel is a poor conductor of heat.
Wasteful and slow to heat up for only 15 min batches.
Store and use all materials in one go.

A temp housing of brick/other might be built up if it's going to be run for an extended period of time.

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimT (Post 12117902)
Something like this?

https://www.smokylakemaple.com/product/16-x-30-gas-fired-finisher-evaporator-customize-it/

https://www.smokylakemaple.com/wp-co...isher-evap.jpg

https://bascommaple.com/cdn/shop/pro...g?v=1564442572



The boiling point of sap is higher than water due to the sugars

Some of the larger Sugar houses have very large pans.... They use wood, gas or oil fires I've never seen one that used electric elements... I sense there is a reason for that.

Thanks Tim, something like this would work but I don't think they would custom make the size I need and if they did, it would be very expensive.

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 908/930 (Post 12117590)
How much electrical power do you have? If the online calc I looked at is right to bring 50gal from 68F to 210F with 30,000w (that is 136A at 220V) will take about 35min. Will need a very well insulated tank.

I have 208V single phase and a boost transformer for 230V for the compressor. I use 208V for my Cerakote oven which gets to 300ºF in an hour and is then on for an hour. I haven't been able to measure how much energy it uses in this time but my gut says about $50 worth. If it's that or even $100 for a bringing 50 gallons of 100ºF (125 water heater, then cooling perhaps) water to 212 and boiling for 20 minutes, I can live with that.

I do have a lot of rock wool left over from the oven build so that would be put to good use.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1698277528.jpg

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greglepore (Post 12117730)
Its bad for the element because bubbles form. Any immersion heater needs constant water contact. I'd look for a couple 3000w immersion heaters and some means to circulate the water so that the area around the heaters isn't above the temp of the water bath.

Good to know, thanks, I would use low pressure compressed air.

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipper35 (Post 12117571)
Morebeer.com has the single coil elements you want.

This has potential, thank you.

gtc 10-25-2023 03:52 PM

You are talking about an immersion heater, there are several types readily available depending on your tank.
Here's one:
https://www.grainger.com/product/TEMPCO-Sanitizing-Sink-Tank-Immersion-6THU6?opr=DC&analytics=FM:DC

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by id10t (Post 12117525)
Do you have natural gas service? Going w same concept as the lp burner but with indoor safe gas. Admit it you really need a good wok burner in the shop to make lunch

Hey Steve, thanks, I really want to keep indoor fire to an absolute minimum and use a welding blanket any time have heat something with a mapp torch. Even with fire extinguishers everywhere, the last thing I need is a fire.

Have a 200K BTU wok burner for outside use only.

Lunch these days is spinach, tofu and butter so I don't get a food coma. Surprisingly tasty. and healthy.

Shaun @ Tru6 10-25-2023 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aschen (Post 12117546)
big burner they sell for crawfish boils would be better. There a re large scale imersion heaters. A quick serach, but I am sure there are cheaper varients.

https://spacare.com/hydroquipbaptistery6kw220voltsimmersionheaterbis-60-240.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAjw-eKpBhAbEiwAqFL0mjB-l7xrnvRC4OO4gdYhnbaDQxTgtDANQJ0ZEmFgEsSh0e4Jozw_9h oCiDIQAvD_BwE


There is alot of thermal energy in heating 50g of water to 100 deg c liquid, then there is a ton more to take it to rapid boil as you are constantly losing the imense heat of vaporization.

Not sure what wattage you would need, depends on alot of factors like time and ambient conditions however. Buring things will be alot cheaper than relying on angry electrons.

This is excellent, thank you and I think exactly what I need. Going to put some search time into them.

gtc 10-25-2023 03:58 PM

Here's a helpful formula.
https://sciencing.com/calculate-time-heat-water-8028611.html


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