Car companies are scaling back EV production.

[red-beard]

They are not selling. And it appears one reason is they are too expensive. At that price level, they have to make extreme luxury models. It is quite telling that Honda and GM abandoned a project to build sub $30,000 EVs.

https://www.businessinsider.com/auto-executives-coming-clean-evs-arent-working-2023-10

[RANDY P]

Being ugly as sin isn't helping either,

rjp

[KNS]

^^

Surveys of new car buyers have shown that most are unhappy with current styling trends. I think most people will agree they're pretty bad. Some of the EVs out there are "unique" but not necessarily attractive.

[GH85Carrera]

It is weird haw the EVs seem to be extra level ugly. The Canoo is stupid looking.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2024-canoo-lifestyle-vehicle-first-drive-review/

If I was commuting 30 to 50 mils each way every day, I might look into an electric car. As my commute is 14 steps down the hall it makes no sense. Of course for me, since 1974 I have only bought three cars, and I still have two of them. I don't count my wife's cars in that total. So the new car market is of no real interest to me personally.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Being ugly as sin isn't helping either,

rjp

The new plug in Hybrid Prius isn’t hard on the eyes. A work colleague went up to Bend, OR to get the particular spec he wanted. Drove it home and got as far as Sacto on one charge/one tank.

[Dpmulvan]

The issue that keeps me from purchasing EV’s is battery life. The Technology isn’t there yet. I have an electric motocross bike and an electric mountain bike and the batteries simply don’t last as long as advertised and replacing them every year, year and a half gets pricey.
Motocross battery is a couple grand and mountain bike $500-$600.
So you spend let’s say 60,000 to 80,000 ish on a car, two years down the road the battery won’t take a full charge and you start to lose range, eventually you need a new battery $15,000 to $20,000. Who wants to put another $15,000 into a 2 year old car knowing that in two years you’re going to have to do it again.
They’re a novelty and until they can find better energy densities and come down in price they’ll continue to be a novelty.
I keep hearing about promising new tech like graphene, sodium et but it never seems to go anywhere.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

The new plug in Hybrid Prius isn’t hard on the eyes.

I totally agree. And probably the most practical car on the road right now.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by RANDY P

Being ugly as sin isn't helping either,

I was very intrigued by the original Tesla Roadster.
Not because it was electric, but I found it a very desirable car.
I liked the styling even better than the Lotus Elise, upon which it was based.
The $90,000 price tag prevented me from buying one, but that's the only electric vehicle that has ever grabbed my attention.

[911 Rod]

But who will use the HOV lanes then?

[craigster59]

I listened to a guy on a radio show today who had taken a trip to Florida. Went to rent a car and they gave him an EV, he had never driven one and thought "What the heck, I'll try it".

I guess it was only charged at 25%/225 mile range, so he figured they'd head to their hotel and charge it there. Apparently running the A/C really drops it down.

The only charger available at the hotel was 120v and it showed 59 hours to charge to full capacity. So he checks the screen for local charging stations and out of the 3 it showed in his vicinity 2 ended up "out of service".

So he finds one near a restaurant, 6 chargers, 10 people waiting. he finally gets it hooked up and ends up spending 2 hours burning up time in the restaurant. This was repeated pretty much the whole trip. Sitting around, paying for over priced drinks while waitng for your EV to charge.

Let me just say he's not a fan.

[MMARSH]

Originally Posted by Dpmulvan

The issue that keeps me from purchasing EV’s is battery life. The Technology isn’t there yet. I have an electric motocross bike and an electric mountain bike and the batteries simply don’t last as long as advertised and replacing them every year, year and a half gets pricey.
Motocross battery is a couple grand and mountain bike $500-$600.
So you spend let’s say 60,000 to 80,000 ish on a car, two years down the road the battery won’t take a full charge and you start to lose range, eventually you need a new battery $15,000 to $20,000. Who wants to put another $15,000 into a 2 year old car knowing that in two years you’re going to have to do it again.
They’re a novelty and until they can find better energy densities and come down in price they’ll continue to be a novelty.
I keep hearing about promising new tech like graphene, sodium et but it never seems to go anywhere.

Well my real world experience says that's not exactly reality. I have 100K miles on my almost 10 year old Model S. It's on the original battery and I've lost about 8% of my original range. It's been at that for about 2 years now. Good friend also has a Model S and similiar situation.

Wife's Model 3 is a 2021, she's at 67K miles and she's lost about 2% of range. This is our real world data, but maybe others differ.

Also I don't know about other manufacturers, but Teslas battery warranty is over and above the car warranty. On my car, I believe it was 8 years and not more then a certain percentage of degradation. I forget what it was. Now I believe it's 8 years and a certain mileage limit like 150K or so. Point is, your not replacing batteries or losing range every 2 years on a EV.

[flipper35]

The Model S is a handsome car, but I could not live with a 3, especially the interior and cost cutting measure of using the screen to control everything.

Kia/Hyundai seem to have decent EVs out right now.

[craigster59]

I posted this on the "Cybertruck" thread. Saw them on a car carrier headed north on the 5 freeway. "Autonomous Vehicles". Takes "Leave the driving to us" to a whole new level....

https://zoox.com/

[Dixie]

I'm not a big EV fan, but I'm not sure this isn't just corporate spin. A more accurate statement is that all cars are too expensive, and something else is hindering EV demand.

In July the average transaction price for an EV was $53,376. That's 18.7% less than the average transaction price of $65,688. That doesn't back up GM and Honda's claim.

To me, a more logical reason is that people know an ICE or hybrid will get them to their destination. Given charging times, range, and charging station availability, people simply don't trust an EV will get them there.

[Steve Carlton]

I wouldn't say Evs are not selling. Or too expensive. There's lots of them under around $40K and there's usually a $7,500 tax credit via purchase or lease, plus other incentives and benefits, such as lower cost per mile (usually a lot lower).

Which ones are "ugly as sin?" There were a few awkward ones in the early days. I think we're going to see some really nice looking ones in the next few years, too.

They're smooth and whisper quiet. Sometimes very fast; sometimes incredibly fast. You lose the visceral quality of an exhaust note and for some, a manual transmission. If that's what you want, you'll need to go elsewhere.

I think in 10 years we'll be charging EVs in 10 minutes and going 500-1,000 miles. We're in the infancy of EVs, like gas cars were in the 20's-30's.

[RANDY P]

The entire GM lineup is a prime example of ugly as sin. So are Teslas- with the notable exception of the $100+K (Today) model S.

A model Y looks like they copied a stormtrooper helmet. Who would pay $$ for that is definitely someone who is trying to virtue-signal.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I wouldn't say Evs are not selling. Or too expensive. There's lots of them under around $40K and there's usually a $7,500 tax credit via purchase or lease, plus other incentives and benefits, such as lower cost per mile (usually a lot lower).

Which ones are "ugly as sin?" There were a few awkward ones in the early days. I think we're going to see some really nice looking ones in the next few years, too.

They're smooth and whisper quiet. Sometimes very fast; sometimes incredibly fast. You lose the visceral quality of an exhaust note and for some, a manual transmission. If that's what you want, you'll need to go elsewhere.

I think in 10 years we'll be charging EVs in 10 minutes and going 500-1,000 miles. We're in the infancy of EVs, like gas cars were in the 20's-30's.

Might be easier to list those that aren't. At least interiors.

[RANDY P]

The emperor has no clothes.

rjp

[RANDY P]

The big question is whether or not the manufacturers are going to actually try to develop a charging system that would negate the inconvenience of charging.

1)- is it even possible? they have been trying for almost a century (some of the first cars were EVs) and it never works out. Range, charging speed.
2)- do they even have the $$$? How much risk is involved trying to sabotage your gas car biz for this? It takes buyers to pay for it all.
3)- Even government subsidies aren't enough. This is why Honda, GM, Toyota, Ford are all backing off. The ONLY EV company right side up at the moment is Tesla.

[craigster59]

I don't know if any of you have seen the documentary "Who Killed The Electric Car". Very interesting story about the EV1. You couldn't buy it, only lease it.

When I worked on the pilot episode of "Grey's Anatomy" it was directed by Peter Horton (Thirtysomething). He still drove his EV1, said he kept it stashed in a storage area in Santa Monica so GM couldn't steal it back.