Hybrids vs EVs

[jyl]

This article (Bloomberg, may be paywalled) describes a resurgence of interest in hybrids.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-04/ev-charging-issues-price-drive-hybrid-car-sales?srnd=premium&sref=eCUg41rA

Take the current Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid. 44 miles EV range, 52 mpg as hybrid. Instead of the cost, weight, environmental, and China supply chain penalty of hauling a 250 mile battery on your daily 10-30 mile driving, run on a 44-mile battery. For longer trips, run on gas with high mpg.

Makes a lot of sense, both individually and for the environment.

When I drove our old Prius (gen 2), I never knew what gas prices were - it was almost irrelevant. If we had a current plug-in Prius (or similar), I would almost never touch a pump except on roadtrips. Gas could be $10/gal and I wouldn't care.

[aschen]

Toyota hybrid is peak automotive engineering.

Get 41 mpg in our 3 row highlander, reliable and reasonably priced.

Meanwhile 6000lb 100k 1000hp sedans will save us

[cockerpunk]

no idea why the Prius gets such a bad rep (i do, but i try not to pay attention to what insecure men care about). it really is the peak of car for basic transportation. the gen2s really nailed it. amazing automobiles. fantastically reliable. 45mpg all day every day.

and totally agree with the stupidity of 4000lbs+ 400+hp ICE "sports cars" terrible to drive. cover up terrible to drive by adding more power to lower the numbers ... not the answer. in big/powerful cars, the EV is 100% better.

if ICE is to survive in automobiles, it will be the small light sports cars. its the only place ICE has an advantage over EV/hybrid.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

EV ideologist fear that hybrid users would not use the battery powered motor as much as they could.
They just aren't zealous enough.

[aschen]

The couple prius owners I know get well above 50 mpg with the last gen model. Like I said I get 41mpg in our much larger highlander hybrid, but I have to try a little bit. More like 34-36 if you ignore the gamification of mpg the car encourages.

Hmn hybrd or EV? If only there was a perfect engineering compromise.......oh yeah toyota perfected that too Prius and Rav 4 prime. Just makes a ton more sense than an actual EV at this point...for 97.9 percent of the population.

[Steve Carlton]

As far as I'm aware, PHEVs haven't gone for than around 20 miles on their batteries until the last year or two, but I don't follow all brands on this issue. Now they're going 40-50 miles on the battery, which is a game changer IMO. They're typically rated in the 80-120 MPGe range, but I'd like to see the actual cost per mile or miles per dollar. Obviously, the cost to charge a battery varies a lot, with solar being typically free and an EV rate plan with a utility being second best (which is what I have).

If your daily driving falls under 40-50 miles (or even if it's not that much more), a PHEV is a great solution. I suspect it blows away 40-50 mpg on a regular hybrid.

[wdfifteen]

I think the plug-in hybrid is a better system than the Chevy Volt system. I love my Volt. Hardly ever put gas in it. But I think Toyota out-engineered GM on this one.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I think the plug-in hybrid is a better system than the Chevy Volt system. I love my Volt. Hardly ever put gas in it. But I think Toyota out-engineered GM on this one.

yes but did those engineers have degrees?

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I think the plug-in hybrid is a better system than the Chevy Volt system. I love my Volt. Hardly ever put gas in it. But I think Toyota out-engineered GM on this one.

Curious why you think so. I got 40mpg in mine after the battery ran out.

[pwd72s]

I wish to thank those who have electrics and hybrids for saving the fuel that I burn in my lovely sounding V-8 Mustang.

[aschen]

The toyota ecvt system is engineering brilliance. I think fords system is similar but took a while to get there. Tons of youtubes on how it works if you like this sort of thing. This is the route of my earlier statement of peak automotive engineering. Boring, simple, and usefull.

The CVT aspect has no actual gear shifts or changing of pullies, belts, or clutches. It is a differential drive on a single planetary gear set with the IC engine, 2 motors, and the output. The effective ratio is varied by the relative speeds of the motors which can add power or harvest power in the process.

[john70t]

A partial hybrid drive makes a lot of sense.
Partial acceleration is where the ICE motor becomes most complex and least efficient.
Especially for heavier vehicles..

The triple alternator/motor/starter would accomplish that.
Or rear hub motor.
A couple extra batteries would do the trick.

[aschen]

My proof that nature has a sense of humor: our 4cyl fwd cvt tragically aspirated hybrid has a sport button

[Steve Carlton]

Even Hellcats need to be schooled now and then.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jyl

This article (Bloomberg, may be paywalled) describes a resurgence of interest in hybrids.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-04/ev-charging-issues-price-drive-hybrid-car-sales?srnd=premium&sref=eCUg41rA

Take the current Toyota Prius plug-in hybrid. 44 miles EV range, 52 mpg as hybrid. Instead of the cost, weight, environmental, and China supply chain penalty of hauling a 250 mile battery on your daily 10-30 mile driving, run on a 44-mile battery. For longer trips, run on gas with high mpg.

Makes a lot of sense, both individually and for the environment.

When I drove our old Prius (gen 2), I never knew what gas prices were - it was almost irrelevant. If we had a current plug-in Prius (or similar), I would almost never touch a pump except on roadtrips. Gas could be $10/gal and I wouldn't care.

I've often thought that a hybrid makes far more sense, at least for most of us in the US.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

no idea why the Prius gets such a bad rep

I think it was 5-7 years ago that I was in NYC and it seemed that most taxis were Priuses or a small hybrid minivan (don't remember the model). I have to assume that if a Prius works as a taxi in NYC that it must be an amazing vehicle. I've ridden in one once, a colleague's wife got one and he brought it to work one day and drove me to lunch in it. My other experience with a prius was when one had an impromptu race (probably only up to 40-45mph) with me in my turbo miata. I won easily, but it put in a decent performance all things considered. If I had still be driving my NA miata, I'm not sure how it would have turned out.

A prius is not for me, but I suspect they are great appliance vehicles.

[dw1]

If the auto companies were really more interested in reducing global warming, hybrids make more sense in the short-term than EVs.

https://www.thedrive.com/features/toyota-is-right-we-need-more-hybrid-cars-and-fewer-evs-heres-why

However, it has been reported that EVs will, in general, need a cost-prohibitive battery replacements at approximately 100k miles, and this built-in "planned obsolesce" would be great for the auto manufacturers.

I'll be holding on to my gasoline-powered daily driver as long as I can, and my wife's next car will likely be a hybrid, not an EV.

My daily driver gets 25-40 mpg, depending on how much highway driving I do, and has 400-500 mile range. After a 10-minute fill-up it can go another 400-500 miles. Until an EV can do that, it a no go for me.

I've driven from the NY area to Savannah GA in one day (because I have grown to hate airlines) - show me an EV that can do that.

My thinking is also that EVs are just a stop-gap between gasoline-powered and hydrogen-powered cars.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by aschen

The couple prius owners I know get well above 50 mpg with the last gen model. Like I said I get 41mpg in our much larger highlander hybrid, but I have to try a little bit. More like 34-36 if you ignore the gamification of mpg the car encourages.

Hmn hybrd or EV? If only there was a perfect engineering compromise.......oh yeah toyota perfected that too Prius and Rav 4 prime. Just makes a ton more sense than an actual EV at this point...for 97.9 percent of the population.

Which is impressive. I commute in my Boxster S. My commute is ~84 miles, and 99% on I10 or similar so my avg speed is usually ~72mph. I don't "try" to get good mileage, I probably hit 100mph a half a dozen times per trip (each direction, no downshifting, just accelerate in 6th). I usually average 22mpg. I think Porsche said that I could get 23mpg highway. I suspect if I worked at it, I could get 23-25mpg (drive slower, use hypermiler tactics).

[masraum]

Originally Posted by aschen

My proof that nature has a sense of humor: our 4cyl fwd cvt tragically aspirated hybrid has a sport button

I'm sure there's a way to change the button to "Turbo" which is what you really need.

Porsche Taycan
Porsche Taycan Turbo
Porsche Taycan Turbo S

I think this is brilliant marketing to idiots.

[chapo]

New Prius finally looks good. My TDI keeps giving 36-42 mpg and its paid for.