Another carwow drag race, 86 930 vs 92 Dodge Viper

[masraum]

I enjoy some of these races for what they are. It's interesting to see folks race these cars even if it's not Randy Pobst driving them on a road course.

'86 930 w/300hp, 430NM, 4spd, & ~1300kg vs '92 Viper w/400hp, 630NM, 6spd, & ~1500kg.



I think this may have been posted before (possibly be me) but what the heck, it's fun.
all of the 911 turbos drag racing.

[Jeff Higgins]

Apparently, both are slower than molasses in January. Right outa Fast and Furious XXXXVI, 30 seconds to show a drag race?

Waaay too many car channels (and pretty much everything else channels) on YouTube these days. Most are utter nonsense.

[Alan A]

Dragged a viper in a 996 C4S back in the day. It left me for dead.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Apparently, both are slower than molasses in January. Right outa Fast and Furious XXXXVI, 30 seconds to show a drag race?

Waaay too many car channels (and pretty much everything else channels) on YouTube these days. Most are utter nonsense.

Who soaked your Washburn's Gold Medal Whole Wheat Flakes in uric acid? Yeah, there's lots of crap on YT, and drag races are not exactly a crowd favorite here, but seeing an '86 930 w/3.3L do pretty well against a Viper is more interesting than one of those "1500hp vette races crazy GTR in a street race on an interstate past other cars" videos. At least they did "best 2 out of 3" and a horrible braking test (flat spotted tires and all).



Next time I'll post a video of loud pipes annoying people.

I did make the thread title clear so you knew what to expect.

Originally Posted by Alan A

Dragged a viper in a 996 C4S back in the day. It left me for dead.

It's hard to compete with a giant V-8 (or later V-10) with a small 6 unless, maybe you're running forced induction.

[Dixie]

I know i mentioned before, i had a 1996 Viper. That way the most *****ing, rather impractical, totally fun, car I've ever owned. God I loved that car.

[Jeff Higgins]

Here's how drag races are covered, replete with properly loud pipes. No cockpit shots of some insufferable dipschitt shaking his fist and hollering something about "boost, baby!!". Covered real time, showing who won, without taking over half a minute to cover what should have been about a 12 second event.



And yes, because it's apparently not as obvious as I thought, I'm pretty much just yanking your chain.

[GH85Carrera]

I remember way way back to 1976 and a local PCA member bought a 1976 930. He gave me a ride and it was unblinkingly fast, compared to anything I had ever been in with a whopping 260 HP.

One of my friends just got his 2023 911 Turbo S. I need to get a ride soon.

Just a few months back I was on track at the Ozarks International Raceway. A supper fun, 4 mile long track with 1,200 foot elevation changes. I had 145 miles of track time. My run group had a real 911 GT2RS with 701 HP. She was a bit faster than my 200 HP 85 Carrera to say the least. At one point as I was on the "roller coaster" section She came up behind me, so I waved her to pass on the left. I did not need to lift as she blasted past like a car with 500 HP more than I have. It was amazing. And if you ever have a chance to drive that track, take it.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Here's how drag races are covered, replete with properly loud pipes. No cockpit shots of some insufferable dipschitt shaking his fist and hollering something about "boost, baby!!". Covered real time, showing who won, without taking over half a minute to cover what should have been about a 12 second event.



And yes, because it's apparently not as obvious as I thought, I'm pretty much just yanking your chain.

Nope, I must have been in thick-mode when I read it. I didn't get the chain yankin'.

That's FAST! It's impressive that those things keep getting faster. What's also interesting to note is that they haven't broken into the 2 sec mark.

I was a bit shocked that there were so many folks standing behind those 2 rails when they left the starting line. I can't even imagine the sound from that position.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I remember way way back to 1976 and a local PCA member bought a 1976 930. He gave me a ride and it was unblinkingly fast, compared to anything I had ever been in with a whopping 260 HP.

One of my friends just got his 2023 911 Turbo S. I need to get a ride soon.

Just a few months back I was on track at the Ozarks International Raceway. A supper fun, 4 mile long track with 1,200 foot elevation changes. I had 145 miles of track time. My run group had a real 911 GT2RS with 701 HP. She was a bit faster than my 200 HP 85 Carrera to say the least. At one point as I was on the "roller coaster" section She came up behind me, so I waved her to pass on the left. I did not need to lift as she blasted past like a car with 500 HP more than I have. It was amazing. And if you ever have a chance to drive that track, take it.

It's funny, many years ago, I test drove a 2001 996 TT, and it didn't feel/seem that fast. I guess it is only 112hp more than my car, and maybe a little heavier. I was expecting it to feel/seem very fast. I can imagine how one of the old G-body 300hp turbos would feel fast since they are much lighter, and at the time, one of the fastest things around.

[pwd72s]

speed's all relative...ride a 1970 Yamama 160 on a deer trail at 15 MPH...you're hauling ass!

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by masraum

Nope, I must have been in thick-mode when I read it. I didn't get the chain yankin'.

That's FAST! It's impressive that those things keep getting faster. What's also interesting to note is that they haven't broken into the 2 sec mark.

I was a bit shocked that there were so many folks standing behind those 2 rails when they left the starting line. I can't even imagine the sound from that position.

Have you seen Top Fuel cars run, live and in person? If not, drop whatever it is you're doing and get yourself to the nearest NHRA National Event. Words simply cannot describe...

Back to that 930 / Viper race. I actually did find it very interesting. I would have guessed the Viper would have simply eaten the 930's lunch. I'm really surprised it did not, but I have some thoughts on that...

I drag raced for about a decade before I learned to turn a steering wheel (actually, we turn the wheel a lot more than most would think, trying to keep those darn things straight). Drag races are won and lost in the first hundred feet or so. It's all about "the launch".

In the lower classes that I ran (still a good deal faster than these two cars), with manual transmissions the launch is absolutely brutal. Essentially sit on the rev limiter while the "Christmas Tree" lights count down, then just step off the clutch at the green. I used to launch my big block MOPAR drag cars at 6,800-7,000 rpm. The sheer violence of that clutch slamming home at that rpm was something to behold.

I didn't see that in this drag race. Neither car had the tires to do it, both apparently running whatever street rubber happened to be on them. Put some slicks on these cars and launch them properly and I bet the tables would be turned. I would even go so far as to say the 930 tranny would never survive such a real bonafide drag launch, where I'm sure the Viper's would.

Interesting comparison nonetheless. More indicative of "real world" street encounters than a "real" drag race would have been. But, well, I just couldn't get past the, to me, cheesy presentation. Too many of these Goobers on YouTube these days.

[908/930]

The 930 would have been better off borrowing some front tires in a 205-55 for the rear and let them spin while developing some boost. The first gear is pretty tall so I think it needs the clutch to slip for a while or some wheel spin. The 930 trans is pretty over built, I don't think that is the weak part, the syncros are pretty slow to engage though. Also a stock 930 is really gutless until boost takes over.

[Jeff Higgins]

Since we are talking drag racing, how about this - a little display the NHRA put together to demonstrate the fuel flow required to run a Top Fuel car. Runs at idle (which is about 2,500 rpm in these cars) at first and then goes to the flow required at full throttle:

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Have you seen Top Fuel cars run, live and in person? If not, drop whatever it is you're doing and get yourself to the nearest NHRA National Event. Words simply cannot describe...

I've seen some 1/8 mile drags, and was in a parking lot car show once that had a rail, although no where near Top Fuel levels. He started it, and I was standing 2-3' from the headers, which was impressive, but then I didn't realize that he was going to blip the gas to skeedaddle over to the far end of the parking lot where the trailer was. It felt like someone had hit me in the chest with a bat. I have no doubt that a Top Fuel rail is 50x as violent. I think they used to hold one of the big 1/4 races in Beaumont Texas (Winter Nationals, maybe), but I think they've stopped.

Back to that 930 / Viper race. I actually did find it very interesting. I would have guessed the Viper would have simply eaten the 930's lunch. I'm really surprised it did not, but I have some thoughts on that...

I drag raced for about a decade before I learned to turn a steering wheel (actually, we turn the wheel a lot more than most would think, trying to keep those darn things straight). Drag races are won and lost in the first hundred feet or so. It's all about "the launch".

In the lower classes that I ran (still a good deal faster than these two cars), with manual transmissions the launch is absolutely brutal. Essentially sit on the rev limiter while the "Christmas Tree" lights count down, then just step off the clutch at the green. I used to launch my big block MOPAR drag cars at 6,800-7,000 rpm. The sheer violence of that clutch slamming home at that rpm was something to behold.

I didn't see that in this drag race. Neither car had the tires to do it, both apparently running whatever street rubber happened to be on them. Put some slicks on these cars and launch them properly and I bet the tables would be turned. I would even go so far as to say the 930 tranny would never survive such a real bonafide drag launch, where I'm sure the Viper's would.

Interesting comparison nonetheless. More indicative of "real world" street encounters than a "real" drag race would have been. But, well, I just couldn't get past the, to me, cheesy presentation. Too many of these Goobers on YouTube these days.

Lots of cool stuff there. Of course your drag launch is unlikely to work well in a street car with street tires. My understanding is that getting a good launch in a street car with street tires is a delicate balancing act to minimize wheel spin, but keep the car in it's power band (especially important in the turbo). And then there's the matter of not wanting to trash part of a street car (trans, axles, etc...).

Still, it was interesting to see just how close they were. It was unfortunate that 2 of the races included missed shifts.

[Jeff Higgins]

You are exactly right - street car drag racing, on street tires, is all about traction control. To put it in a way that us Porsche-bound "road racers" can understand, I'll compare it to braking performance. We are all taught that once the tires start to skid, braking distances increase. Anti-lock technologies are based upon this principle - once the tire loses traction, performance diminishes.

Well, "launch control" techniques rely upon the same principle - keep the tire from spinning, let the slippage happen somewhere else. With brakes, it it the brake pads "slipping", not the tires. Under power, it's the clutch on a manual transmission, or the torque converter on an automatic. In trying to get a good launch from a street car with less than ideal traction, we slip the hell out of the clutch. I often wondered which was harder on that clutch - a full blown drag launch or a delicately balanced street launch. The latter is sure a lot smellier...

[908/930]

Did you notice what happened when the 930's tires hooked up the first run, the car looks like it stopped, I am quite sure my bike makes more torque then the 930 under 3500rpm.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by masraum

I was a bit shocked that there were so many folks standing behind those 2 rails when they left the starting line. I can't even imagine the sound from that position.

And 3 times a year the NHRA has 4 wide racing. Here's an entire Top Fuel class of eliminations from first round to the finals in less than 7 minutes.

[aschen]

930 had a really long run being considered a relatively fast car from late 70s to early 2000s.

4cyl cheapest cayman or hot hatch will leave it for dead now of course

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by masraum

It's funny, many years ago, I test drove a 2001 996 TT, and it didn't feel/seem that fast. I guess it is only 112hp more than my car, and maybe a little heavier. I was expecting it to feel/seem very fast. I can imagine how one of the old G-body 300hp turbos would feel fast since they are much lighter, and at the time, one of the fastest things around.

The 996 TT really needs a tune to liven it up. The turbos come in so late you fall asleep waiting for them. A few bucks and a quick flash makes it way mo betta.