All New Lever Gun

[Jeff Higgins]

From Smith and Wesson? They just introduced their model 1854, named for the year the company introduced the Volcanic lever action.

This seems to me an odd move. It looks and sounds like a wonderful rifle, and I'm sure they have done their market research, but I would have thought this unlikely. Not that this is a crowded field by any means, and I do welcome another offering. Initially available only in .44 Magnum, I'm sure there are more chamberings to come. I wonder if they plan on a full length "rifle" sized action.

It's available in two versions. The production version retails for $1,300. It comes in stainless steel with a composite stock. Kind of a weird mix of tradition and technology. Oh, and threaded for a muzzle brake or suppressor as well:



It will also be available in a limited edition of 1854 examples in blued steel and presentation walnut. Much prettier, but $3,500? Yikes:



It will be interesting to hear what shooters think of these. Looks like a winner, but I would hope they eventually offer a standard grade in blued steel and walnut. Time will tell.

[MMiller]

I like it! Not as much as the Ruger/Marlin 1895 SBL but still very nice. The Ruger is chambered in 45/70. I think S&W made a good choice with the 44 mag round.

Lever guns are garnering quite of bit of interest these days. Quite a few companies offering more modern accessories for modern lever guns. It's fun, nice departure from the AR platform IMHO..

[JavaBrewer]

Never owned a lever rifle but that may change soon. I really dislike the SS with plastic option, including the Ruger, but SS with wood is sure nice. I have a couple long guns in that configuration and love them.

[Jeff Higgins]

I hate to say it, because of the long term ramifications, but I kind of see the new "tactical" lever gun as the industry's response to the unending legislation being passed against "assault" rifles. Without getting too political (and please, let's not), I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately overturn these laws under the Heller proscribed "common use" doctrine, but the situation is far from resolved. A pistol caliber lever gun is certainly a viable alternative for home defense and similar uses normally assigned to AR platform rifles.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I hate to say it, because of the long term ramifications, but I kind of see the new "tactical" lever gun as the industry's response to the unending legislation being passed against "assault" rifles. Without getting too political (and please, let's not), I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately overturn these laws under the Heller proscribed "common use" doctrine, but the situation is far from resolved. A pistol caliber lever gun is certainly a viable alternative for home defense and similar uses normally assigned to AR platform rifles.

I can see this in states that have strict/stupid laws like California and New York, but then Foxtrot Mike now has their AR-based ranch rifle out, which also bypasses these stupid restrictions.

Personally I've never been a fan of lever guns, never liked the look and how they feel/handle. Think S&W would've done a lot better with a more traditional design - wood or laminate stock, good peep sight/ghost ring with D&T holes for adding a rail if the user really wants one, etc. Alternatively, keeping with their theme of "tactical" and doing something more akin to the Browning BLR, specifically the detachable mag, and making it work with AR mags (and a 3 or 5 round AR mag can be very short - there was a company making a 3 rounder that would fit in the AR pistol grip storage compartment) and the popular AR calibers - 223, 6.5 grendel and 300 blackout - would probably do well.

[KFC911]

Nope ... not for me either. Gimme a Marlin or a Winchester .... just personal preference. I know those must come with "hairy knuckles" .... hmmm.. what happens next ?

edited: errr... I like my classic Marlins tho' ... made just north of me, I will never have a bbl stamped with this nonsense either... and don't care how good it is

[osidak]

i have one of these - not a huge fan of the pic on the barrel and working a solution. but it suppresses well and is a blast to shoot. breaks down and easy to carry in a back pack with a 16.5 inch barrel. 45-70

[KFC911]

One thing I like about my Marlin 1894 in .357 .... still a lot cheaper than .44 mag or 45-70 (or my 336 .30-30) to feed ... and still potent for my needs.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by KC911

One thing I like about my Marlin 1894 in .357 .... still a lot cheaper than .44 mag or 45-70 (or my 336 .30-30) to feed ... and still potent for my needs.

And you can also shoot 38 Special.

[rfuerst911sc]

In the 80's I had a Marlin lever in 30-30 . For upstate NY deer hunting in the thick stuff it was perfect . Never should have sold that one .

[KFC911]

Soooo.... what's it feel like to sell a spoon ?

Doubt I ever find out ... bought my Marlin 336 in '78 .... could not buy my own ammo tho!

[Jeff Higgins]

The rail on this rifle is removable. The top of the receiver is drilled and tapped with holes at the same spacing as any Marlin, so it will accept any scope mounts or sights meant for Marlins. Granted, if removed, it would require a taller rear sight or a shorter front sight, but those are readily available as they interchange with those on any Marlin. A scope (God forbid...) could be mounted either to the rail or to the receiver, hairy palms notwithstanding.

As far as magazine and caliber choices, I believe the tubular magazine was the right call, along with chamberings suitable to such. Detachable box magazines, as on the Browning BLR, just make lever guns feel clumsy. They add width and depth, and a weird shape to the part of the rifle where we carry them. Part of the joy of traditional lever guns is just that - how they carry. The slim receiver, with the rifle balanced right in front of the trigger guard. Conversely, one of the worst rifle designs in the world for carrying is anything with a detachable magazine hanging out right there. Unless, of course, one only carries it from the trunk to the bench rest, then it really doesn't matter. Beyond that, I believe they are hedging their bets with regard to a detachable magazine of any kind, with at least a few states going after them regardless of capacity.

An iron sighted short rifle such as this, or a carbine, really doesn't need the velocity and range provided by bottlenecked rifle cartridges. Even with its peep sight and .44 mag chambering, this thing is useful out to a couple hundred yards. That's plenty. And it sure hits harder than any .223 out to 100 yards or so, especially on bigger, tougher animals.

I think S&W have chosen the right combination to appeal to as many as possible in today's market. Like I said, I'm sure they did their market research.

[KFC911]

^^^ Regarding the .30-30 @ 100 yds .... earlier I saw something that said at that distance, it out performed the .308 and venerable .30-06 too .... I learned something new and it shocked me ...

[HardDrive]

Originally Posted by KC911

^^^ Regarding the .30-30 @ 100 yds .... earlier I saw something that said at that distance, it out performed the .308 and venerable .30-06 too .... I learned something new and it shocked me ...

Define 'out performed'.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I hate to say it, because of the long term ramifications, but I kind of see the new "tactical" lever gun as the industry's response to the unending legislation being passed against "assault" rifles. Without getting too political (and please, let's not), I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately overturn these laws under the Heller proscribed "common use" doctrine, but the situation is far from resolved. A pistol caliber lever gun is certainly a viable alternative for home defense and similar uses normally assigned to AR platform rifles.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Cue the "tactical" lever action carbines dolled up with composites, Picatinny rails, pistol grips, suppressors, lasers, lights, optics, bipods, targeting computers with "artificial intelligence", and God knows what else. I'll bet we see a lever action that (somehow) takes AR mags.

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I hate to say it, because of the long term ramifications, but I kind of see the new "tactical" lever gun as the industry's response to the unending legislation being passed against "assault" rifles. Without getting too political (and please, let's not), I believe the Supreme Court will ultimately overturn these laws under the Heller proscribed "common use" doctrine, but the situation is far from resolved. A pistol caliber lever gun is certainly a viable alternative for home defense and similar uses normally assigned to AR platform rifles.

And you can top off as you go.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Define 'out performed'.

Was just as potent ... or slightly better .... I'll try to refind it ... it was with regards to inches of penatration, etc.

Found it .... F&S .... wonder if Jeff has an opinion ... and would share ...

https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/powerful-30-30-winchester-cartridge/

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by KC911

One thing I like about my Marlin 1894 in .357 .... still a lot cheaper than .44 mag or 45-70 (or my 336 .30-30) to feed ... and still potent for my needs.

I will have one of these soon enough

[Flatbutt1]

How does the Henry side gate .357 compare to the Marlin?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by KC911

Was just as potent ... or slightly better .... I'll try to refind it ... it was with regards to inches of penatration, etc.

Found it .... F&S .... wonder if Jeff has an opinion ... and would share ...

https://www.fieldandstream.com/hunting/powerful-30-30-winchester-cartridge/

Didn't read the article, but here is my take on it. It boils down to impact velocity and bullet construction. One of the problems hunters faced for most of my lifetime was that as velocities improved, bullet construction did not. The ubiquitous hunting rifle bullet was the old "cup and core" design, a cupro-nickle jacket formed over a lead core. The hardness of the lead core and the thickness of the jacket control expansion on impact. We want to control that so that we can also control penetration. More of one necessitates less of the other.

The .30-30 is the slowest of the three, the '06 the fastest with a given bullet weight (150 is common in all three). 2,200 fps, 2,800 fps, and 3,000 fps respectively. With this old bullet construction, with some brands, we might be seeing higher impact velocities at 100 yards with the .308 and '06 than the bullet will accept without over expanding or just flat blowing to pieces. Same bullet in the .30-30 may be below that threshold, stay in one piece, and provide the penetration needed.

This whole thing is far different today, though. We have readily available to us some pretty remarkable bullets, designed to hold together at modern magnum velocities. Pretty hard to drive some of these "too fast" these days. This has served to pretty much negate this old erstwhile "advantage" inherent in lower velocity rounds.