60 year old copper vs. new copper vs. Pex

[G50]

A surprisingly controversial subject!

Remodeling our house. Will be able to get access to most of the plumbing pipes.

Existing copper that looks fine and has no leaks, but is 60 years old.

Calif so it never comes close to freezing here.

Leave it, replace it with new copper, or replace with Pex?

[Bill Douglas]

I'm curious to see what the experts say.

A thing I do is photograph the plumbing so if you do need to cut into it or add to it, you don't need to destroy half the wall to find it.

Another thing I do is leave draw strings (thin rope) attic to floor in a few places in case you want to run cat6 or some speaker cable.

I like pex.

[look 171]

Replace with L pipe. I like pex but I rather use copper in my own house. Don't like plastic all that much especially if I have to ingest water that goes through it. My house is 1951 re-pipes in the mid 80s according to the receipts with copper, m pipe. I tore out all of the electrical and plumbing in the first 6 years I owned the house and replaced with L pipe ( I know, I know, itw a waste of money and they were all in working order but I am anal). We were certified Pex installers by the late 90s. Something new, something fun. All my rentals have PEX due to ease of installation and repair. I hopw I answer your question. Nothing wrong with neither. How long are you planning to live in the house? That is a 10k expense in avg in CA .

[Por_sha911]

Copper will develop pinhole leaks
https://whyrepipe.com/blog/what-causes-pinhole-leaks-in-copper-pipes/

[look 171]

The question? Are there any creative plumbing going on. What do the pipes look like at the joints? If copper, MAKE SURE your plumber do two things, de burr after cutting and wipe off all flux after solder. If plumber do not deburr a cut pipe, it will cause pin holes in due time. A lot of guys I see will take that goddamn flux brush to cool the solder and just walk away without wiping it. You will have leaking joints within 5-10 years.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by look 171

I like pex but I rather use copper in my own house. Don't like plastic all that much especially if I have to ingest water that goes through it.

The city water supply comes to your house through plastic. So sadly no way to avoid it.

[wdfifteen]

What is the condition of your water? Soft or a lot of minerals? Will you always have access to the pipes or is this a one time opportunity?
If you have soft water and will have access to the pipes in the future leave it alone. If you have hard water you may have 60 years of mineral buildup that restricts water flow and want to replace the pipes now. If this is your only opportunity to access the pipes you may want to replace them now.
If you are replacing them go with copper.

[drcoastline]

You can blanket statement "leave it". In my opinion copper is superior to any of the plastics but ew copper is not the equivalent of old copper. So, inspect the existing plumbing, where it is sound leave it. Where it is questionable replace it.

The question then becomes what material to replace the old with? Personally, I would use copper over Pex or any of the plastics. The new copper is not the same quality as the old and likely will not last sixty years as the old, it may oldy last twenty-five. In all Pex or any of the other products also only have a useful life of twenty-five-ish years.

Concern number one for me is Pex or any of the plastics have a taste, this is a clear indication something is leaching into the water supply. Is this harmful? Time will tell. The plastics are easy to install, and a DIY-er can do it.

Copper doesn't have a tatse but is more expense and takes skill to install if you sweat the pipes.

[jyl]

What do we think about press connect copper fittings?

It’s supposedly been used in Europe since the ‘50s, anyone know its track record for longevity?

If Pex really only lasts 25 years, I’m appalled.

[rwest]

Copper all the way for me and I also use the “L” because I’m odd like that!

I would cut out a section of the old with fittings and see if it has been worn down by water swirling and if not, leave it alone, otherwise replace lines that will be hidden after the work is done and leave the stuff you can get too easily later.

If you happen to have a recirc line, I would replace that as it has water moving in it all the time.

[Flatbutt1]

I live in a high iron area and my copper pipes slowly turned into paper thin pipes. I replaced them 20 / 25 years ago with new copper and compression fittings. They started leaking about 4 years ago so I had a plumber replace all with plastic and installed some filters.

[G50]

Our water quality is very good, not too hard, no high iron etc (thus my 60 year old copper still looks good). Also, we have just installed a whole house water filtration system, so it’s even better now.

Pex lasting 25 years, I don’t think anyone really knows, right? It hasn’t been in widespread use (or any use?) for that long, so it seems like no one really knows how long it will last.

I am a little concerned about the quality of new copper. I’m guessing that, like most things, “they don’t make it like they used to.” But 60 years old feels like that’s getting up there.

Some of the areas can be reached fairly easily by cutting drywall, others are more difficult, they will be behind shower walls etc.

I think Pex is out. So it’s between leaving the old or replacing with new copper.

[Flatbutt1]

Originally Posted by G50

Our water quality is very good, not too hard, no high iron etc (thus my 60 year old copper still looks good). Also, we have just installed a whole house water filtration system, so it’s even better now.

Pex lasting 25 years, I don’t think anyone really knows, right? It hasn’t been in widespread use (or any use?) for that long, so it seems like no one really knows how long it will last.

I am a little concerned about the quality of new copper. I’m guessing that, like most things, “they don’t make it like they used to.” But 60 years old feels like that’s getting up there.

Some of the areas can be reached fairly easily by cutting drywall, others are more difficult, they will be behind shower walls etc.

I think Pex is out. So it’s between leaving the old or replacing with new copper.

If you know how to sweat a joint then that's the less expensive method of joinery. The compression fittings are way easy but pricey. IMHO

[KFC911]

My parents have 60 yr old copper that's exposed in their unfinished basement ... nary a leak or an issue ... ever. I wouldn't dare replace it ...

"If it ain't broke .... fix it until it is broke "

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Flatbutt1

If you know how to sweat a joint then that's the less expensive method of joinery. The compression fittings are way easy but pricey. IMHO

Plus, sweating copper pipes makes you feel like a champ- love a well done pipe joint.

[Flatbutt1]

Originally Posted by rwest

Plus, sweating copper pipes makes you feel like a champ- love a well done pipe joint.

True!

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by KC911

My parents have 60 yr old copper that's exposed in their unfinished basement ... nary a leak or an issue ... ever. I wouldn't dare replace it ...

"If it ain't broke .... fix it until it is broke "

Likely after all those years it has a lining of lime and water deposits and will last forever.

I am no expert, but I would be inclined to leave it alone unless you see something to add on or change for a valid reason. Any sign of corrosion or any issue, fix it. Don't fix what is working.

[911 Rod]

If copper was deteriorating after 60 years, wouldn't a lot of houses be effected?

[zakthor]

I am interested too but I can't tell the good advice from the bad.

What is 'old copper' and 'new copper'?

I've got a house that is > 100 years old. Has some copper but mostly fitted steel pipe and it seems to be fine (isolators at the joints). My newer house is ~50 years old and had a 4" copper sewer pipe through a ceiling that sprung a drip. The entire bottom of that pipe was thin like tin foil. So I guess there was a time when it was ok to use copper for a sewer pipe? Makes me think there's no sense to construction science.

I've seen a bunch of in floor heating products get released with fanfare and then discontinued and no support after 20 years because the parts fell apart.

But that plastic pipe is still like new...

[908/930]

G50, cut a section near an elbow out and take a look at it and decide from there. Most turbulence is after an elbow, so more likely to erode the pipe there. It is likely fine. As others have mentioned "L" copper pipe, if changing any. The thickness of new elbows is very different to old ones also. I did a total repipe in our last house with copper, due to relocating hot water tank, went with PEX with this one. I think most of the water filters use HDPE same as the inside of pex, so not sure if filter is a good idea if trying to avoid plastic. Then there is always the lead used for older solder joints.