Espresso Question

[jyl]

Originally Posted by greglepore

The CoffeeSensor flow control is probably the best $150 I've spent on my coffee habit. If your grind and tamp are perfect you can just run it at the normal "wide open" setting but you can profile if you want. And if your grind/tamp is a little off, you can usually save the shot with excellent results by increasing or decreasing the flow.

I wonder if that would work on an Elektra grouphead.

[greglepore]

I doubt it, the Elektra design isn't the same as e61...

[jyl]

There is a mod I can make to open the solenoid without starting the pump, thus allowing brew water under line pressure into the group head for pre-infusion purposes.

I've resisted making this sort of mod to the machine, because I don't really want to fuss and fiddle with my espresso.

There are a couple of cafes in the area of Marseille where my daughter's apartment is, that for EUR 1.50 will serve a very tasty shot that I like better than the USD 3.50 shots from almost every cafe in Portland. No fussing with the shot, they have everything dialed and the shots are very good every time. That's my aim.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by 917_Langheck

Sour pull is underextracted, usually due to water temp being too low. As an espresso, tunneling (too much pressure) or too short an extraction can be a cause. Source, the many James Hoffman videos.

Does this mean for any given time a hotter water temp will be less sour?

[917_Langheck]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Does this mean for any given time a hotter water temp will be less sour?

That's a good question. If I recall the monologue Hoffman gave in this videos there may be some inversely proportional wiggle room there, but for the most part it is a dance between so many factors such as pressure - which has at least three variables attached: rise, sustain, and falloff; water temp - similar variables, not to mention water quality; grind and grind quality and consistency; portfilter quality, fitment, and even size; tamp pressure of your puck... just such a god-awful array of variables, it's a wonder it works.

The video where they hacked the espresso machine with a bunch of measuring tools was the most informative on these relationships.

Ultimately, you can "pull" a coffee with cold brewing and not have a sour coffee, but at the hot end, 205°F is as much as coffee can take before no shortness of brew helps, or so say rhe supertasters.

[zakthor]

Wow great responses. I’m also voting temp is too low. For the beans I like the happy place is around 203.5. I might adjust down as far as 202.5 sometimes, rarely though. And never higher as it starts tasting burned.

I’ll add: could it be the beans? There can be big batch variations. Nasty beans can taste really sour.

Try bringing home known good beans that you’ve seen deliver scrumptious shots.

It sort of sounds to me like something is off with your machine. Maybe time to upgrade to something with a pid?

[908/930]

"Could it be the beans" I was thinking the same, hopefully he did check that. I normally use the same brand production bean and almost every bag is different, I had one that was quite bad, over cooked dark roast. That reminds me to sent them an email.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by 908/930

"Could it be the beans" I was thinking the same, hopefully he did check that. I normally use the same brand production bean and almost every bag is different, I had one that was quite bad, over cooked dark roast. That reminds me to sent them an email.

Probably not the beans, I’ve tried a few different kinds.

Next step is fiddling with pressure. I now have no idea if I need more or less pressure, so I’ll try both ways.

[greglepore]

If the machine doesn't have a gauge and you have a standard portafilter, there are a plethora of gauges set up to screw on to the threads where the spout attaches.

[908/930]

If anything I think you need more pressure. Did you try using a double shot so about 16 G coffee grind in 30G out? I was having a hard time with a triple shot, really have not tried again because the double works very well, will try tomorrow.

[917_Langheck]

What is the status of your water service and source? Has it changed? Some waters are better than others for extraction, and water low in key minerals can result in sour or poorly extracted coffees.

[908/930]

So I tried two triple shots today, beside a double the double tasted better. Not as easy to do a triple shot for me requires a second lever pull to get more water in.

[zakthor]

Originally Posted by 908/930

If anything I think you need more pressure. Did you try using a double shot so about 16 G coffee grind in 30G out? I was having a hard time with a triple shot, really have not tried again because the double works very well, will try tomorrow.

Pressure: it could be.

I once had my pressure bypass go bad, it shunts pump overpressure back to the reservoir. I had to keep dialing grind back to get anything out and I was getting these sour mousey little shots.

In my case it was a spring plunger bypass between the pump and the brew head, whole thing was wrecked inside so plunger couldn't make a seal. I replaced it and all was instantly well.

I've no idea how an electra works, is there a pressure bypass? If its a lever can you make shot go faster by pulling harder? Could it be the spring has broken?

[908/930]

jyi, when you tried different grind setting how coarse did you go? Try getting to about 25sec with about 20g coffee in.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Just found this which could be helpful and interesting: Scace 2 - Espresso Machine Thermofilter - Temperature & Pressure Device


The Scace 2 is the next level of Scace temperature measurement tools and is exclusive to EspressoParts.com.

The Scace 2 Thermofilter gives you both temperature and pressure readings directly at the group. This is where we are most interested in receiving data, and now you can do both. The device is very capable of measuring temperature to within a 10th of a degree. The "T" type thermocouple is very fast and accurate when used in conjunction with a Fluke digital thermometer.

While we are fans of the Fluke brand, there are other brands and models of digital thermometers, all you need to make sure of is that the device can read "T" type thermocouples. Pressure is the other fluctuating factor when we discuss stability in an espresso machine. Knowing your brew pressure is just as important as the temperature, and we have found that coffee can taste quite different at variable pressures.

The Scace 2 Thermofilter has an integrated glycerin filled pressure gauge that provides accurate brew pressure. Do you need a Scace device? The question really should be can you afford not to own one? Having the knowledge of temperature and pressure of your espresso machine is very valuable with regards to quality control.

The Scace 2 Thermofilter was previously only available for the La Marzocco equipment specifically, but is now available for the Nuova Simonelli commercial line as well.

[greglepore]

Greg Scace has been around since the early days of internet coffee discussion. Great article here summarizing some of his work: https://canadianbaristainstitute.com/en-us/blogs/celebrities-and-insiders/scace-coffee-tool

[greglepore]

just tripped over my box of espresso parts and found I have both a grouphead temp gauge and an extra grouphead pressure gauge. If the electra group has the standard m6 port I'd be happy to lend you the temp sensor and give you the gauge...

[Shaun @ Tru6]

^^^ this is what makes this forum so great!

[jyl]

here is my grouphead. Will the pressure gauge work with that orifice?

[jyl]

I tried cutting the shot duration down to about 25 seconds for a 21 g of coffee shot. The shot was better. I will experiment more along these lines.

However, the shot didn’t “look” great - went blonde pretty early. With my usual fine grind long shots, I’m used to seeing dark brown flow until about 2/3rd of the way through. Of course, the taste matters more than the look.