Rehabing farmland

[john70t]

Any farmers here that know the DNR/EPA stuff?

I've seen some properties for sale that would be much nicer with some tera-forming and water on site.
Old worn out dirt basically. Price per acre is much less and so that money saved could go towards improvements.

Another used to be a deer farm but located in a watershed drain area.
I suspect there might have been fed interference with having animal stock there but not sure.
That swampland needed a big pond on one side and higher ground on the other.

How easy is it to get a permit to dig out a duck/fish pond...and create a wildlife habitat?
Located in Michigan so water rights etc not an issue. yet.

[unclebilly]

This is really location specific as to what rules are in play around redirecting water.

You are absolutely correct that soil gets 'burned out' by modern farming practices. Our fields are really hard to reclaim for grass or grazing land, it takes years an numerous applications of manure. The modern seed varieties for barley, wheat, and canola basically use the soil to hold the crop in place. The fertilizer, sun, and rain are what grow the crop.

We stubble graze our land so it typically does better than the 1/4s around us that don't get an winter of cow 5hit and subsequent harrowing.

[john70t]

I was highly inspired by the feel-good movie https://www.apricotlanefarms.com/shop/the-biggest-little-farm-blu-ray-signed-by-john-and-molly-chester/

Just north of Los Angeles, they turned rock hard dirt outback into rich loam and a little slice of paradise.
(and they've also got a good self-promotion thing going as well)

Once the 'ecosystem flywheel' gets balanced out, it creates a better product and probably saves of other expenses

[wdfifteen]

The regulations are going to be locally specific. Do you want to farm it or create a wild habitat?

A lot of native plants don’t require good soil. In fact, the success of some invasives is due to the fact that they can take advantage of enriched soil better than natives. Butterfly Milkweed and China Berry thrive in crap soil and have trouble competing on good soil. If you are going native your biggest challenge is going to be keeping out invasives like Japanese Honeysuckle and Multiflora Rose. I did an annual hunt for them on my old property, and after about 10 years pretty much wiped them out. This place is so overrun I’ll be fighting them as long as I live.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The regulations are going to be locally specific. Do you want to farm it or create a wild habitat?

This and what UB said.

1/2 my farm is in an area "critically" zoned, which I am completely in agreement with.

My recommendation, if they are reasonable (and you can ask some locals), is to engage the local Farm Agent (or whatever they call them in your area) and get their opinion and hopefully expertise.

In my area, our agent is really good and he helps, not hinders.

I have soil plans, water conservation plans, set backs for ag, native grasses, etc. that we all worked together to help manage the local environment.

We have also re-introduced Turkey's and other formerly native species to the area.

Best of luck. It is really enjoyable.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

The regulations are going to be locally specific. Do you want to farm it or create a wild habitat?

A lot of native plants don’t require good soil. In fact, the success of some invasives is due to the fact that they can take advantage of enriched soil better than natives. Butterfly Milkweed and China Berry thrive in crap soil and have trouble competing on good soil. If you are going native your biggest challenge is going to be keeping out invasives like Japanese Honeysuckle and Multiflora Rose. I did an annual hunt for them on my old property, and after about 10 years pretty much wiped them out. This place is so overrun I’ll be fighting them as long as I live.

Good thing you don't have Kudzu.

[KFC911]

Patrick's Bamboo Emporium .... 10 acres ... 11 by September

Local rules ... or lack of local rules

And Andy .... or Barney....

Good luck!

[john70t]

I have family in the area, and not going to move soon, but I seriously lust for this dream property:

https://www.landsearch.com/properties/2044-klender-rd-bentley-township-mi-48613/3298547


Pros:
-In the middle of nowhere.
-No neighbors. Free-range dogs. Howitzer target practice range. Whatever. You can pee off the front porch in the buff.
-$649k/142 equals $4,600/acre. Most are in the $10-25k range or more.
-I could sell my local properties and be well ahead with a tax land swap exchange.
-Half the taxes of my little house. That adds up over time.
-Steel roof and decent drainage. House is mostly move-in ready condition and been loved.
-Fish pond in front. Car garage. Big barn. Everything. Only needs a couple greenhouses and animal barn and heated indoor pool lol.
-Backs onto a state park with deer. Moto and dirt biking galore.

-It's at the delta of a drainage zone area and there is nothing industrial on the map above through Mid-Michigan.
-Clean dependable water source...for now.
-Where there is water..grow organic rice..

-The trench could have steel or concrete pipe rolled into it, with a bridge on top for animals and heavy equipment to access the swamp square.

-Line the path square with overhanging willows and birch trees inside.
-A big duck pond could be dredged, leave space for meadows and plant wildflowers for bees and hawks
-The new mounded high ground planted with fruit (blueberries/fuji apples/etc) that tolerate wet roots.

Cons:
-In the middle of nowhere.
-30-50minute drive to any civilization groceries and materials and hospital down 2-lane straight track. Yawn. Are we there yet?
-Can't be subdivided in the future. Nope.
-DNR and watershed restrictions with fed oversight probably.

[bmcuscgr94]

Originally Posted by john70t

I was highly inspired by the feel-good movie https://www.apricotlanefarms.com/shop/the-biggest-little-farm-blu-ray-signed-by-john-and-molly-chester/

Just north of Los Angeles, they turned rock hard dirt outback into rich loam and a little slice of paradise.
(and they've also got a good self-promotion thing going as well)

Once the 'ecosystem flywheel' gets balanced out, it creates a better product and probably saves of other expenses

I've visited that farm. Got some good ideas for our place. We've changed the way we've used pesticides and weedkillers. We're starting to see more beneficial wildlife comeback. We're more selective with what we use and target pests instead of shotgun with the cheapest product.

Production has gone up as well as quality. We sell a lot directly to local stores and to consumers at our farm stand

[john70t]

The key thing I liked was that any farmer can start to rebuild their soil. All it needs is:
1). Mulch piles.for compost
2). Worm farm bin or raised trench.
3). Put that material into another bin to create a bio 'tea' for a week and then spray on the fields. Natural fertilizer to build up the topsoil.

I've got a Cletis Multrum composting toilet bin in the garage that produces a nice brown odorless liquid.
Needs leaves and an occasional sprinkle of bio agent to help it along.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by john70t

The key thing I liked was that any farmer can start to rebuild their soil. All it needs is:
1). Mulch piles.for compost
2). Worm farm bin or raised trench.
3). Put that material into another bin to create a bio 'tea' for a week and then spray on the fields. Natural fertilizer to build up the topsoil.

I've got a Cletis Multrum composting toilet bin in the garage that produces a nice brown odorless liquid.
Needs leaves and an occasional sprinkle of bio agent to help it along.

You need a few more things…

Tractor, dump truck or manure spreader, compost media such as manure or used bedding, harrows, etc. This stuff takes time and isn’t an overnight fix. It’s taken me 3-5 years to ‘fix’ alkali soil in some spots on our land. A couple spots I was diligent and fed cattle over the alkali all winter long and then harrowed every spring. These spots now support a crop whereas before they would not.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by john70t

The key thing I liked was that any farmer can start to rebuild their soil. All it needs is:
1). Mulch piles.for compost
2). Worm farm bin or raised trench.
3). Put that material into another bin to create a bio 'tea' for a week and then spray on the fields. Natural fertilizer to build up the topsoil.

I've got a Cletis Multrum composting toilet bin in the garage that produces a nice brown odorless liquid.
Needs leaves and an occasional sprinkle of bio agent to help it along.

Seems like an OK scale for a small flower bed. You are going to have to scale WAY up if you are going to rehab acres. For our 1/4 acre garden we brought in 9 yards of composted cow manure (found several farms that were giving it away on Craig's List).
We don't have a worm bin. There are naturally worms everywhere in good soil and they won't live in bad soil. Every fall we have a compost pile of grass clippings and leaves that is 4-5 feet tall and wide and 20 feet long. I turn the compost every 10 days to 2 weeks with the front end loader. We don't mess with saving kitchen waste for the compost pile. It's just a drop in the bucket and it's not worth the walk all the way to the compost pile. At this rate it will be years before we have really great soil, but it's getting better.



We brought in rotten cow manure on our car hauler, 2 yards at a time. Here is my wife Vicki, always shooting the 5hit.

[wdfifteen]

The first year we made a base of partially composted cow manure and added and equal amount of grass and leaves.

\

Eighteen months later, after it cooked down, it covered our little 1/4 acre garden in maybe 1/4 inch of new soil. Now, after 4 years of this, the garden has a few inches of decent soil.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by KC911

Patrick's Bamboo Emporium .... 10 acres ... 11 by [strike]September[/strike] Thursday

Local rules ... or lack of local rules

And Andy .... or Barney....

Good luck!

Fixed that for ya....

[KFC911]

^^^^ Yer right! I didn't realize Patrick had to fertilize his bamboo at gunpoint!

[KFC911]

Back to the OP ... and ponds. I have three on old family land.... spring fed (a damn good flow) that I have only seen once when the original pond was drained once nearly 6 decades ago... one pond feeds another smaller one, then another, then into a stream.

If you don't have a good spring or creek feeding a pond.... then you have a big ol' pool of stagnent, nasty water imo. I've seen a few of those too....

I luv ponds .... good ponds

My largest one .... full of bass... and turtles .... I eliminated 4 BIGLY azz snappers from the next pond a few years back, and relocated at least 50 sliders.

[GH85Carrera]

My grandparents bought a 10 acre lot in the 1960s, that was a old farmers field with depleted soil. They built a house in the front, and a rental apartment with 4 units in the back. Then grandpa went to work on his one acre garden. He brought in tons on horse manure, and spent a lot of time behind his rototiller. He then hauled in a lot of compost from a farmer friend that had a two generation farm and lots of compost. He built two large worm beds that looked like oversize coffins. All of their food scraps of household garbage wen in there, except cow bones.

After two years he started planting his vegetable garden. All the organic plant material went back into large compost piles. After just a few years the soil was transformed into soil so rich you just plant something and jump back because it started growing. OK slight exaggeration.



This is him in the corn area of he garden. With corn as high as an Elephant's eye like the song. The apartment is in the background. I remember going back there to pick my own ear of corn, walk to the compost pile, shuck the corn, walk inside and grandma was ready with boiling water to cook it. Damn that was good corn. My brother and I often went back out to get a second ear to gobble down.

Grandpa raised so much that he fed have the church, and all his neighbors with his harvest.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

....



Grandpa raised so much that he fed have the church, and all his neighbors with his harvest.

Yer Grandpa .... was out standing in his field

[911 Rod]

I guess all the small rooms in the listing were for farmhands? Hunt camp?

[stealthn]

I love this thread, but I’d love it more if I had land ��