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I'm not an engineer, but as for mooring barges, they will probably need mooring at all four corners, as the river is tidal.
Dismantling the twisted structure of the bridge will be dangerous, as I imagine there will be a lot of oxy lance work to render it into manageable pieces. Using explosives to sever the beams and girders might be safer and faster. Best Les |
The bow of the ship is in the river bottom, but only due to the weight of the bridge resting on it. Should pull right out.
They'll offload containers to barge, they did it with the Ever Forward to lighten it. Only a few hazmat containers aboard, they know where they are and not in the river. The link upthread that Jolly posted has data on what ships are in the harbor and trapped, luckily not many. As far as arrivals, "Wolfsburg" unloaded VW's at Sparrows Point yesterday-its outside the bridge. Other traffic may divert to Norfolk or Wilmington, both are international ports with all the goodies and only a couple days away. Currently most are holding at an anchorage below the Chesapeake Bay bridge. I guess a remaining issue is whether salvage is allowed to proceed to cut things apart immediately as all of the bodies haven't been found or recovered. |
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I'm curious about - What component failed or what was the human error?
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1. How are they going to remove the old bridge debris? I know there are barge cranes enroute but they can’t lift an entire bridge section.
1a. How do they cut the bridge sections into liftable segments without shock loading the crane? They will use a combination of methods, cutting torches, shears, hoe-rams, hydraulic saws, possibly lances, etc.. 1b. How do they get a man into position to cut the bridge sections? Is this torch work or some crane mounted ‘jaws of life’ type pincer machine? They will probably have barges with manlifts/aerial buckets etc.. And demo shear such as this <iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0Hc4uLS6wnE?si=QuhSVVSNfDD4LDed" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe> 2. How do they get the barges to the bridge and keep them there? Presumably they would set the anchors upstream and the barges would be positioned downstream where the bridge debris is. Likely they would triangulate the anchors to prevent side shifting. It seems like the barges need to be upstream of the bridge but they can’t get there… yet. They will have barges with spuds either on the bow or stern, or all four corners to locate the barges securely.. I'm not sure of the depth of the water . in some instances they may sink or ground the barges.. load them with debris, then refloat the barges. Same with the barge mounted cranes.. There is a barge mounted crane called the "century" owned by the Port Authority of NY and NJ, that has a 1000 ton capacity if floating.. if its grounded the capacity goes up a great deal.. There will be a number of set ups like this, on a much larger scale... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711721193.jpg |
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In this image you can see the destroyed pier cap, and a portion of one of the columns draped across the bow of the ship http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711584033.jpg |
As far of cutting the bridge up into smaller pieces, when the ship Golden Ray rolled over in Brunswick Ga. a few years a go they used a huge chain to cut though the entire ship. There videos of it on youtube. It's crazy to watch it in action.
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How are they going to pick up the pieces?
There are MASSIVE barge mounted cranes around the world that can lift hundred of tons. The problem will be finding one available that can get on scene soon. This one can lift 900 tones http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711724954.jpg |
https://www.donjon.com/ches1000.htm
1000 tons at 63' radius https://www.donjon.com/vesselimages/chesapeake.jpg |
One crane has arrived,
https://apnews.com/article/baltimore-key-bridge-collapse-03-29-2024-7d27a5c561f9f3359935a56139623108 BALTIMORE (AP) — A crane appeared at the site of a collapsed highway bridge in Baltimore as crews prepared Friday to begin clearing wreckage that has stymied the search for four missing workers and blocked ships from entering or leaving the city’s vital port. A crane that can lift 1,000 tons — described the largest on the Eastern Seaboard — had been expected to arrive late Thursday, and a second that can lift 400 tons should arrive Saturday, officials said earlier. They will be used to clear the channel of the twisted metal and concrete remnants of the Francis Scott Key Bridge, as well as the cargo ship that hit it this week. |
I wonder who they will name the new bridge after
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I think this project would make for a good live streaming camera event. It's going to be very interesting to see how they get all the bridge cleared in a timely manner.
Will a replacement bridge be similar in design? It's hard to not think about the four guys still missing and what their families are feeling. |
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It also lost power and thus the ability to steer it.
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Why did it lose power? E.g. capacitor on circuit board ABC failed and there was no backup or quick recovery process. I would expect that most of the critical systems do not have a single point of failure.
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With so much weight and inertia involved, it would make sense to have tugs escort ships out of the harbor to avoid such a catastrophe. I'm sure that would be expensive, but this illustrates the downside. I know hindsight is 20/20, but this should have been anticipated.
I wonder if not replacing the bridge and re-routing traffic is feasible. Not replacing the Embarcadero Freeway after it collapsed seems to have been a big plus overall. |
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Built in 1977. Like a kitten on a freeway.
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Once underway, with steerage, a ship the size of the Dali is like a planet in orbit a tug cannot influence. I am really interested in the truth on this. I only drove ships for a year but the nuances of getting in and out of port are briefed, at least in the Navy, in detail by the Navigator to the watch team. |
Not so sure. Some think tugs could have averted this disaster. Some ships are much bigger, but I don't know if they go to Baltimore or not. Maybe we're 'gonna need a bigger tug.' If you're referring to stopping the Dali's forward momentum, I would agree that a huge job. But what about pushing it perpendicularly in a different direction?
I think it's time for some change. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/03/27/tugboats-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/73123627007/ |
I've calculated a few times, the force that ship struck that pier with.
Not really relevant because the answer is with a lot more force that the pier could resist.. I had a feeling this crane was headed to the site.. https://www.lohud.com/story/news/2024/03/29/largest-floating-crane-at-baltimore-site-not-left-coast-lifter/73142285007/ Kind of odd knowing you have worked in a niche sort of career and know where 1000 ton capable barge cranes are located.... |
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If it lost power, why was it billowing huge black smoke in the entire half a minute before it hit the bridge? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711764319.jpg |
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Going slow, they have very limited steering. I had more than one log ship get all bent out of shape in the shipping lane in Trevor Channel on the west coast of Vancouver Island back in the day when I was dragging for shrimp there… they wouldn’t charge course until I called Tofino Traffic on channel 73… Tofino Traffic quickly reminded them that the active commercial fishing vessels in the area had the right of way. They had limited steering, I had none with a shrimp net 1200’ behind me in ~100 fathoms of water. |
Whoa too cool we have a waterman here! What sort of shrimp were you catching there?
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We had a 47’ Japanese beam trawl net and it worked pretty well. We also had a door trawl that towed a lot faster but didn’t fish as well. This boat, the Darlene T, wasn’t well setup for shrimping as it was originally built for Gillnetting salmon on the Fraser River and we converted it for salmon trolling as well. It would only hold 1500-2000 lbs of shrimp because you would do 30% ice. We added a deck tote so I could take another 700 pounds of shrimp before we had to deliver. I could fill the boat in a day and a half but then it was a 2 day turn around run to Ucluelet to deliver. At 17, I was the youngest skipper on the west coast. |
Skipper at 17? That is crazy!
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Some initial RCA thoughts coming in relate to possible contaminated fuel taken on at the port. Very early to know, could be something completely different.
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And it was initially reported that the belch of black smoke was from the generator coming online and not the engines . There are lots of questions and there will be answers but only after a thorough investigation .
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^^^ Wonder if it is driven like a locomotive? The engine charges the batteries and the batteries drive the wheels or prop?
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My gravel truck does it, my old case tractor does it, the fish boat I ran did it. Pretty normal. My newer tractor with tier 4 emissions, does not smoke at all. |
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A more modern layout might be something like this. I think these newer systems are more robust at tolerating failures. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1711816498.jpg |
Oklahoma today
https://www.newson6.com/story/66086506279eaf1f2b6c6efe/bridge-closed-near-sallisaw-due-to-barge-collision A bridge has been closed near Sallisaw due to a barge crashing into it according to the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. The bridge on US Highway 59 is south of Sallisaw at the Kerr Reservoir. Traffic is being diverted from the bridge until it can be inspected, according to OHP |
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