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https://gcaptain.com/dali-salvage-baltimore-gas-pipeline/

High pressure gas pipeline halts bridge removal

I wonder if that ship will be able to float and moved with it's containers left on board after the debris is removed from it's bow......

Not referring to this thread - but I’ve seen way more OMFG How Will We Survive coverage of this than I’d like to see in a thinking society. My dad even asked me how badly this would hurt the economy and if cargo blocked in the port would be ruined. Fer Chrissakes. Nothing urgent goes by containership. “No dad, there are not fresh vegetables going rotten in those containers”. The port will be operational in a few weeks, when the bridge is removed. At that point, this becomes a local traffic problem. No more 695, so take 895 or 95. The national hyperventilating has got to stop.

On Maersk stock, the problem for the containership industry is that during the Covid shipping boom way too many new containerships started construction, so now the industry is facing significant oversupply for the next few years or longer. For some reason not understood by me, when this stuff happens, containership companies don’t collectively mothball or scrap older less fuel efficient ships to keep capacity in balance with demand (like cruise lines do), instead they watch container rates and earnings go down and down and down. The Red Sea problem helped absorb new capacity for a while, but that absorption is over and will reverse when the Houthis are eventually stood down. I guess this is known to the markets and hence should be in the price, but Maersk is still above its pre-pandemic price and perhaps it should be below it. To the extent global supply chains shift even a bit to near-shoring, that would be a further negative and maybe that’s what the market is uncertain about.

The "news" and media in general ... brought to us by Chicken Littles :(.

The more I tune it out .... the better life is.... and it doesn't really suck :)

Usually :D

I don't ever remember hearing that the ship has taken on water from below the waterline hull damage. Need to pull it back into the channel after offloading the bridge steel and containers.

This is interesting stuff.


https://youtu.be/2Wim-_Q_59o?si=YuOuKorPBJLgv-uq


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The video posted above says 'there are reports that two of the four compartments have flooded in the vessel'.

This is from the NTSB YouTube channel.

https://youtu.be/YwWVqTy4Ofg?si=AdxbM6BCLdhNa_rb

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https://youtu.be/-rxKQ8Tr94s?si=GLbdgtnzI23vITv2

I like how this guy presents facts.

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This may help some to understand why the bridge collapsed as quickly as it did. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...6494bf5b7e.jpg

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THanks. I can't view the videos. Company firewall blocks them. :rolleyes:

Usually when someone here says 'this is a good video' I ignore the posting, but the YouTube link posted is worth watching this time.

This is NOT a concern. We have pipelines all over the place here - I have 3 (or 4?) abandoned gas pipelines running underneath my property plus the sales line that brings us NG for heating our house and shop.

They already bled the line down. Now get on with the salvage operations. When that works concludes, inspect the line with divers and a pig, pressure test it, and get on with life.

Why does it feel like a bunch of old ladies are running the show?

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Not that long ago we had a hell of a fire under an elevated freeway concrete structure. This is a major artery into L.A. At first they were talking 3 to 5 weeks. They did it in less than 10 days.

https://www.equipmentworld.com/roadbuilding/article/15658677/burned-la-i10-freeway-reopens-in-8-days-way-ahead-of-schedule

Thats what I keep thinking... and they had a live video feed of the project. It was impressive.

As I recall Philly did something similar

https://billypenn.com/2023/06/11/highway-collapse-philadelphia-i95-truck-fire/

This is the one I was thinking of.

No way is something like that going to happen here...

Depending on the design of the replacement...i.e. steel truss, precast concrete, cable stayed, simply procuring and fabricating the the various elements takes time.. Evn though this project will definately be "accelerated"

Steel mills don't have stock of millions of pounds of various shapes "in-stock", with a project like this pressure will be put on the mills to "cut the line" and roll the required shapes for this bridge ahead of current orders..

Ordering bulk steels shapes usually takes months.. and certain shapes are not even rolled in the States..

Many of the jobs I've worked on have a Buy American Clause in the specs.. One job in particular the contactors detailer specified a shape that was not rolled in the States... an exception was made because of time constraints and redesign costs.. The shapes were sourced from a mill in Germany

Just some pics from the Manual of Steel Construction.. I have the Silver more recent addition somewhere..

The designer has to strike a balance of the lightest member, the most economical construction method, availability, domesticity.

Mill don't have stock of all the various weights of shapes.. Contractor need to order the shapes, then wait in line for the mills to produce the members required.. The the raw product is shipped to a fabricator to cut and drill the pieces.. mills sometimes only cut certain lengths.. So if you need a 46' member, and the mill only supplies 50 footers... you get 4' of waste on every piece...

What goes on behind the scenes to build infrastructure is really remarkable...

Some shots from the Steel Manual

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1712008978.jpg

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Founds this calc in the Manual... have no Idea what I was designing..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1712008978.jpg

Apparently you've never seen the results of a fracture high pressure line..

If the bridge sinking impacted the pipeline.. there can be damage removed from the point of impact..

Also gas leaking underground has this odd habit of following the trench.. makes for interesting situations in populated areas

Don't be so sure... I've been the professional engineer that did the failure analysis on fractured and blown high pressure lines (rated to 15,000 psi) several times. And I've written peer reviewed SPE papers on the matter, one made the JPT.

We also deal with sour gas pipelines here - not something you have much of in the US. When H2S leaks, people die. Failures involving H2S usually involve HIC but thats a different story.

If this was a priority, there would be several parallel paths already in play. I'm not sure there are.

One of those paths would be reviewing the original design to see what changes could be made to bring it up to 'current day standards' and replicated it which is likely the fastest and simplist path.

Another path would be looking at what options exist for temporary (floating?) bridging with a (re)movable section to enable ship traffic.

Complete replacement would be another path.

I imagine a concrete plant will be setup very close by - this is something that will be needed regardless of the path chosen and could be happening now. Are they looking at concrete suppliers yet?

Steel procurement could also be taking place. Form factor yet to be determined, but the quantities needed are several mill runs. Where are we at with this? I expect the steel grade will be fairly standard regardless of the design path.

There are lots of other things anyone who has ever been involved in construction PM could point out that aren't on the critical path yet but will be when they stop making excuses and start doing stuff.

Atlanta had a fire under one of their freeway bridges and repaired it quickly as well.

Tim - thanks for your commentary here. Please continue at your discretion. Thanks! SmileWavy

Sonar images of the submerged wreckage

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/8316597/navy-3d-sonar-images-reveals-challenges-salvaging-baltimores-francis-scott-key-bridge-wreckage

By-pass channel is open and being used for smaller vessels.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-vessel-uses-alternate-channel-131420802.html

https://youtu.be/kz9pc6_ZiIM?si=VCwIB4nT7jhtQnHP

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^^^

Thanks, I like his updates

SPOT ON!

When 'everyone' is in charge, nobody is in charge, hence the scattered approach that I elluded to above.

It is great to see the crane and barges starting to remove debris. I also like the idea of a bypass channel, albeit shallow.

I saw on the news that the Singapore company that owns the ship has filed papers saying they are not responsible. Yea right. Just keep the ship and cargo until their insurance company pays for the cleanup and new bridge.

What I read was they used some 1851 Maritime law to limit their liability to the value of the ship.

https://fortune.com/2024/04/01/baltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-liability-cap-44-million-singapore/

https://youtu.be/l-DAZqTZCb8?si=D9M2LvpAfO5F8Gvm

Long video but really informative.

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That's like saying because my POS car is only worth $500, that's the maximum I should be liable for if I crash into your car/house/family. :rolleyes: Start freezing their assets and sell them off if need be to pay for this cleanup and loss of business/income.

https://youtu.be/72SlDMN7_7A?si=48p34wCyiVrAz3lx

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This is for the tinfoil hat crowd

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2024-04-03/what-do-a-top-secret-cia-mission-and-the-maryland-bridge-wreck-have-in-common-well-the-same-crane

How so?

what is that?