AI Tech and Air Combat

[Mahler9th]

Just last week:

"But the aerial combat that followed was unlike any other: This F-16 was controlled by artificial intelligence, not a human pilot. And riding in the front seat was Air Force Secretary Frank Kendall.

AI marks one of the biggest advances in military aviation since the introduction of stealth in the early 1990s, and the Air Force has aggressively leaned in. Even though the technology is not fully developed, the service is planning for an AI-enabled fleet of more than 1,000 unmanned warplanes, the first of them operating by 2028."

https://apnews.com/article/artificial-intelligence-fighter-jets-air-force-6a1100c96a73ca9b7f41cbd6a2753fda

[Mahler9th]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UleMkcUVRzc

[70SATMan]

Skynet Squadron.

[Seahawk]

There is nothing new here: We have been flying old jets NOLO (No Live Operator) for 40 plus years...old F-4's out of Point Mugu and other more interesting places, mostly to fly mission profiles against ships and occasionally against manned aircraft.

They were initially radio control from the ground by a pilot sitting in an F-4 cockpit in a room. That has changed! The sensors and sensing equipment is light, reliable and very powerful BEFORE whatever version of AI strikes your fancy.

The weak link in any tactical aircraft is the human and the support systems required to keep that human alive, conscious and aware: breathable air, seat, canopy (which are very complex), avionics, etc. and the fact that a human is G Limited to a much lessor degree than the aircraft the human is flying.

Those systems and the human drive weight and performance of the aircraft: Think in terms of an air to air missile that is smart and can re-engaged the manned aircraft in a similar manner of two manned aircraft in a fight.

We did a lot of work on this with my UAS's when I was the Program Manager for Navy and Marine Corps UAS.

This is not a knock on pilots at all, it is just reality...

[pwd72s]

Aircraft designed to make maneuvers the human body can't withstand...then AI makes sense.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Aircraft designed to make maneuvers the human body can't withstand...

They already are, Paul, have been for a long time.

Also, this is not a gun fight, although we did it...get the tone and go home. A to A missiles are also smarter and better than ever.

[masraum]

Hasn't this been around since 2005?

[Alan A]

I’m willing to bet that they all become obsolete in favor of lower cost AI controlled drone swarms.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’m willing to bet that they all become obsolete in favor of lower cost AI controlled drone swarms.

The issue is the tyranny of distance and the legality, both are daunting.

At distance comms are the key since today, and it may change, the emphasis now is on meshed networks and how to MANAGE the inevitable swarms we have and defeat the opponents.

There is also a requirement, again today, to have decision points with a person in the loop.

Lastly, a GPS denied environment and how it affects UAS is number two on the hit list. Not easy.

[Alan A]

I’m thinking more distributed AI embedded in the swarm for defense or area denial. Anti materiel and anti personnel as well as anti-air. Legality will go out the window fast in a real war.

You (obviously) want something bigger to deliver care packages at range.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by Alan A

I’m thinking more distributed AI embedded in the swarm for defense or area denial. Anti materiel and anti personnel as well as anti-air. Legality will go out the window fast in a real war.

You (obviously) want something bigger to deliver care packages at range.

Not at all. My company works in the smalls, tethered and untethered for what you mentioned.

The key is, for other missions, how to get the swarm at distance if needed.

It is a really fascinating series of what if’s. I work this every day.

[gsxrken]

Somehow my Twitter algorithm caught on to drone-bombs in Ukraine. Absolutely horrifying, to be honest. Some overwatch drone is filming a Russian infantry or armor soldier from above, and films as they become aware of an incoming anti-personnel drone. They either try shooting at it or diving for cover under whatever is nearby, but the drone flies right into their hideout and explodes. It’s absolutely sickening to watch someone’s son crawl about 5 ft before they slow and sag for a final time. Right or wrong, it smacks of murder to me in a way that conventional warfare does not. won’t post a link here. Now I don’t know what effective countermeasures we have to protect our guys, but we damn well better be working on them. And at scale. It’s no way to go.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

The key is, for other missions, how to get the swarm at distance if needed.

It is a really fascinating series of what if’s. I work this every day.

I don’t. I last looked at avionics systems when ADA on 8-bit processors was a hot thing. I hated the math for control systems, so drifted into another field.

Figured you’d deliver a swarm far from home the same way you deliver a bomb today. Plane or missile. Whether they leave that under their own steam or inside something to be deployed a bit later is moot - it’s there at least.

What I really want to see is an anti-swarm swarm in action.