Engine Flush before Oil Change

[matthewb0051]

Getting ready to do oil change on our Land Rover Disco 4 and thinking about using Liqui Moly engine oil flush. However, I just bought an oil vacuum extractor after I was told LR has a tube for oil extraction right under the oil filler cap. Pretty excited to not have to drop the heavy ass belly pan.

Just curious if using a flush would be better if the oil was drained the old fashioned way at the pan, letting gravity do the work and not trying to suck up all the grunge that the flush dislodges.

Thoughts??

[KNS]

For something like that I'd drain out the bottom. Suction out for regular changes is fine but I'd guess that the Liqui Moly may free-up something that would eventually settle in the pan. I'd want it all out.

[look 171]

I often think about a flush too on my kid's 4 runner. Only because it has 200k on it but the oil is still gold in color after 5000k oil change. I am just anal about sludge in any of my engines.

I think it would make sense to let gravity do all the work instead of sucking it through a small tube. Do the same, dran from the bottom on the next oil change just to get rid of all of the engine flush. After that, extract the oil through the cap as they oil will be clean of sludge.

May I ask why do you think it needs a flush?

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by look 171

May I ask why do you think it needs a flush?

2010 with 150k on the clock. Just seems like it is time.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by matthewb0051

2010 with 150k on the clock. Just seems like it is time.

I feel the same way but I often wonder if there a change some damage or leaking after all the sludge is keeping leaks at bay?

[speeder]

I’m a big fan of putting some ATF or Marvel’s Mystery Oil in the crankcase and taking it on a few hundred mile high speed road trip before changing the oil on old engines. It tends to do a great job cleaning and unsticking the oil control rings, (bottom rings on pistons), but draining it really good and long from the bottom is essential, IMO. If I really suspected sludge or other heavy dirt in the engine, I’d invest in an oil pan gasket and remove the pan as well to inspect.

Sucking the oil out through the top is only ok if it’s always been changed on time or sooner.

[matthewb0051]

Originally Posted by look 171

I feel the same way but I often wonder if there a change some damage or leaking after all the sludge is keeping leaks at bay?

I had the same thought.

It was making some ticking sound recently but then I inherited it from the wife and my commute is highway and longer. Ticking gone. Plus, I keep it clean inside so I think it appreciates me more.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by speeder

I’m a big fan of putting some ATF or Marvel’s Mystery Oil in the crankcase and taking it on a few hundred mile high speed road trip before changing the oil on old engines. It tends to do a great job cleaning and unsticking the oil control rings, (bottom rings on pistons), but draining it really good and long from the bottom is essential, IMO. If I really suspected sludge or other heavy dirt in the engine, I’d invest in an oil pan gasket and remove the pan as well to inspect.


Sucking the oil out through the top is only ok if it’s always been changed on time or sooner.

How much ATF or MM oil would you put in the crankcase, Dennis?

[pwd72s]

Youtube is full of tales regarding engine flush products. Some say they're great, some say they are a waste of money, and some say they are bad because of freed sludge clogged oil passages harming the engine.

Your call, but if the car is at 150K, running fine, I'd tend to think no flush...you have been changing at proper intervals with a good quality oil, right?

No opinion on the suck old oil out gadgets...

[pwd72s]

Lake Speed Jr. on a new Valvoline oil out there...maybe switch to this instead of flush? (edit) 22 minutes, but interesting....an oil that removes carbon & sludge? Hmmm. Engine oil flushes briefly mention at around 15 minutes. Lake speed says no...don't use 'em.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyyZDghgdCI&ab_channel=TheMotorOilGeek

[speeder]

Originally Posted by look 171

How much ATF or MM oil would you put in the crankcase, Dennis?

That’s a great question. It’s not something that I do as a matter of course but if I had an old car that might have had some really dirty oil in it in the past, I’d probably throw a quart of ATF in a couple hundred miles before an oil change. It harms absolutely nothing and it’s super detergent.

Extreme situations call for extreme measures, though. Here is a true story to illustrate: a guy I know once bought an old mini truck, (maybe Mazda or Ranger but doesn’t matter), with a “bad motor.” It smoked like a crop duster and used something like a quart of oil every 100 miles. The truck was in NorCal, 4-500 miles away and he had to get it home so he bought some huge jugs of oil and a bunch of ATF, just to experiment. He had nothing to lose since he was planning on having to completely rebuild the engine anyway. I think that he told me that he threw about a half a gallon of ATF in it and set off on the highway. This would be half the oil capacity of the engine, more or less. It was a 4-banger.

Within 100 miles, it stopped smoking completely. With 200 miles, it stopped consuming oil. When he got it home to L.A., he changed the oil and filter and has been driving it for years now with no issues. The oil control rings were obviously totally stuck and gummed up and the ATF cleaned and freed them. I usually don’t buy the whole “tune up in a can” deal but this is an exception.

Also, if you look online, Marvel’s is the same price or cheaper than ATF in the present time. It’s better than ATF because it’s mineral oil.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Your call, but if the car is at 150K, running fine, I'd tend to think no flush...you have been changing at proper intervals with a good quality oil, right?
\

When my BMW reached 240,000 miles it was time to replace the leaky oil pan gasket. I had been changing the oil every 5000 to 7500 miles and using either Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic the whole time. The oil pan was remarkably clean.

[speeder]

One last thing; in case you think that the guy with the mini truck was some idiot who just got lucky and did not blow up his engine, the truck and the story belongs to one of the best and long standing machine shops in SoCal. It is their parts runner. They know engines.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by KNS

When my BMW reached 240,000 miles it was time to replace the leaky oil pan gasket. I had been changing the oil every 5000 to 7500 miles and using either Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic the whole time. The oil pan was remarkably clean.

The best thing possible to do is always change your oil on time and use the best oil and filter available. Nothing beats that.

The “engine flush” that some repair shops try to sell people is complete BS IMO and in fact could really be harmful for the reasons stated above on this thread.

[pwd72s]

Denis, did you have a chance to watch the video I posted above?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Denis, did you have a chance to watch the video I posted above?

Not yet, Paul but I will when I get home. Nothing like a good engine oil discussion to really get me riled up!

[speeder]

I just bought this jug on sale at Autozone for this car:

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by KNS

When my BMW reached 240,000 miles it was time to replace the leaky oil pan gasket. I had been changing the oil every 5000 to 7500 miles and using either Castrol or Mobil 1 synthetic the whole time. The oil pan was remarkably clean.

Same here on my volvo xc70. Mobil 1 synthetic every time. At 250k ish 260? I don't remember, pulled the pan.

Clean as a whistle. Top end clean too.

- one thing to add though. Mostly highway miles. Long run times, enough to burn off condensation. I think the synthetic and the highway miles helped.

[Walter_Middie]

I was told LR has a tube for oil extraction right under the oil filler cap.

I have been using a vacuum extractor on my LR for a number of years. It's nice not to have to crawl under the car and not remove any engine covers (the oil filter is also on top of the engine) - but the extractor is slow.

Many YouTube videos on using these extractors and comparing to draining from the pan. No difference in the amount of oil removed. Videos show that after vacuum extraction, the oil pan drain plug is removed and nothing else comes out.

[GH85Carrera]

My daily driver El Camino came with a v8 305 from the factory. It went 300,000 miles and that engine was worn out, and started smoking.





I took that engine apart just to see what was worn and how clean it was. The valve guides were shot, and the piston rings were worn. The bottom end was very clean.

I took it to the scales and sold it as scrap for $70 bucks. I installed a brand new 350 that was $1,700 delivered to my door. That was way cheaper than any machine work on an old engine.

Just regular oil changes and oil filters kept it clean. Then and now, when I change the oil, and check the level on the dip stick I have to get a reflection off of the dip stick to see the oil on the dip stick as it is clear. It only has a little color after 3,000 miles.

My 911 is the same way. Very clean inside.