Restoration project during retirement - advise me

[ard]

Asking here about something possibly sacrilegious because PP is my "home base" so to speak

I'm not about to retire but I can see the proverbial finish line if I squint a bit.

I have hobbies to keep me busy but on my bucket list is restoring a car.

I am considering an E28 M5 or an E24 635. Why?

• when finished I want a car I can drive and park most anywhere and enjoy the drive and not worry endlessly when it's parked
• the most fun family sedan I owned was an E39 530i Sport 5-speed that had been lightly breathed on by Dinan (suspension, intake) plus a few other mods. That was a true delight to both commute in and take for the occasional backroads romp.
• I feel I am too late to the game with early-middy (i.e. '78) 911s in terms of price of entry and the cost of parts. While I haven't conducted extensive research I contemporaneously owned a 993 alongside the E39 and had to "restrain" myself when buying BMW parts because they felt like such a bargain when compared to Porsche parts.
• I love the look of both the E28 M5 and the E24

Here is what I have and don't have

• I know how to do routine maintenance on cars (brakes, fluids, plugs, belts)
• I am comfortable with mechanical and electrical work
• I am comfortable with minor paint repair
• I have decent garage space - nothing I'd post to a "dream garages" thread but workable
• I have a "comfortable middle class" retirement budget but I can't afford to let spending on this one bucket list item get out of hand
• I have a reasonably patient, if periodically eye-rolling, spouse
• I don't have experience with body or rust repair
• I don't have experience opening up a motor but I have patience and willingness to start over again if needed
• I don't have experience opening up transmissions
• I don't have experience with upholstery work

I would not do a concours-level restoration. Rather I'd do a "build" to suit my taste. I'm not in tune enough with the E28 M5 crowd to know whether that's a sacrilege nowadays. Additionally the M5 was a 2-year only model '87-'88 (correct me if I'm wrong), so I may be looking at a similar situation as with a long-hood; namely that the only affordable entry would be a complete basket case. I'd like this to be a 12-18 months project, not a multi-year project.

What advice do you have for me?

TIA

EDIT: I should add that British cars (Triumphs, MGs) hold no attraction whatsoever for me (no offense to any fans). Possibly an Alfa Giulietta but I am afraid I might regret that

[rfuerst911sc]

I retired 6 years ago at age 60 , having planned projects/things to do is a good thing . Staying mentally and physically busy is a good thing . If your dream is to restore or modify a car to your vision then do it . You can find plenty of reasons to do it and plenty of reasons not to . If you are a number cruncher it may not make sense . But doing what you want during retirement isn't all about dollars and cents . Yes you have a budget so plan accordingly .

I thought my restoration days were behind me and then got a wild hair idea to buy a Porsche 996 to modify . That idea just came out of the blue . My wife was on board with the idea so I moved forward . Today I have a beautiful 1999 996 C4 that I am very proud of and enjoy . Life is short , do what makes you happy .

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by ard

What advice do you have for me?

Make the time estimate four years if you want to keep it to eye rolling only. (Why even have a time boundary? Screw stress.)

Take days off and do something fun with your wife (often).

Farm out the transmission work. Tooling up is too expensive for a one off.

Get a big sturdy work table and watch videos.

[unclebilly]

It takes the same amount of time and effort to fix up something desirable as it does to work on something obscure. You can spend your time polishing a turd or creating something valuable.

If I was you, I would find a 911, a beetle, an early mustang, or something desirable so at least your time is not wasted working on a car where the incremental increase in value is a few hundred bucks.

[Paul T]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

Make the time estimate four years if you want to keep it to eye rolling only. (Why even have a time boundary? Screw stress.)

Take days off and do something fun with your wife (often).

Farm out the transmission work. Tooling up is too expensive for a one off.

Get a big sturdy work table and watch videos.

Great advice. Definitely don’t set a time boundary. Work when you feel like it, do other things when you don’t. If you never finish it, it is what it is. That’s the whole point of retirement….zero stress.

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by ard

I have hobbies to keep me busy but on my bucket list is restoring a car.

Im not going to tell you not to do it, but keep in mind working on it will be harder as you get older. Just the getting up and down over and over again can become taxing. If I dropped something when I was 60, I'd grumble as I bent over to get it. Now I just stare at it and think, "do I really need that diamond earring? I could just wear one."

[greglepore]

You are pretty much correct about an e28 M5. Nice ones are 50-60k. Mid level cars are high 30's. The motors are stout, but the trans is subject to wear and synchros. The do rust if not cared for. The interiors are beautiful but the dashes do crack, and the front seats often require to have at least bolsters done.
It my favorite of all the cars I've owned. I recently passed on one in the 30's that was very nice-just don't have room for another car.
A 635 or better yet an M6 is more obtainable. A 535is done correctly is also a great car. Not as free revving as the m5 but you can easily do most of the m5 suspension stuff. M5's weren't crazy powerful-280hp or so, but they were rev monsters and had a peaky rush to the power.

[Cloggie]

Don't know about the cars you are interested in, but I am in my 70's and still am finishing my restoration.

I find the bending, turning and twisting to be helpful exercises and good for me, my only problem is that I am a big person (190 cm and 110kg) so interior work can be a pain as there just isn't the physical room inside a 911 that gives me enough space.

I would not set a time line, but would say if you make your hobby your job, you need days off from it just like a real job. I find I can only do about 4 or 5 days per week on the car before I need to do something else, which is good as there is always the Honey Do list to attack.

Go for it.

D.

[herr_oberst]

5-speed E28's are great; and you don't necessarily have to have an M5 to have an enjoyable, fun to drive comfortable classic car, plus there's a fairly large enthusiast community to help you find answers.

Do it.

[911 Rod]

I hope you have a lift. The floor is farther down after 60.
Hell, I put my car on the lift just to check the tire pressure.

[fintstone]

Based on your skill set and age (retirement)...unless you have a mentor/friend to help, I would consider myself largely a checkbook mechanic. Plan on doing the smaller projects you can do and planning out the others to have someone else to do them. If learning as you go, too big a project will never finish.

If that seems reasonable to you, then you need to find the starting platform that fits your abilities (and wallet) the best. Start with the best project you can (try to buy a car that was someone else's project where they have done much of the hard work (and spent a lot of money /time on already) or a very nice, relatively unmolested model. All will still need plenty of work.

Although I did quite a bit of DIY paint and bodywork in my youth, I decided that I did not want to do that anymore and my last two "classics" both 911s started with perfect, rust-free bodies with almost perfect paint. Painting gas tanks, sway bars, trunks, grills, etc. are pretty doable by anyone (rattle can epoxy is pretty handy). If a collectable project/garage queen, it will likely never develop rust/need paint again). None of my cars have any. Even the daily drivers.

Ancillary systems like brakes, ventilation, electrical, etc. are small enough and simple enough jobs for most...but are often surprisingly expensive if farmed out due to large amount of time tracing wires, etc. My '74 had a glass out paint job by the previous owner and almost every wire to the fuse box was switched (as well as the lights/signals). I cannot imagine how much I would have had to pay to straighten that out or have the fresh air ventilation system rebuilt (but both just cost me time). I also replaced all the seals, hoses, and sway bar bushings myself. Very labor/time intensive...but certainly doable DIY. Check for parts availability and cost. Parts are practically unobtanium for some older cars.

Most folks farm out interior work outside of stereo, carpet and dynamat/sound deadening. Most folks farm out transmission and engine rebuilds. If that is you, starting out with a strong powertrain is important (unless you decide to go significantly beyond stock in HP). Most folks that do get engines modified for power retain their original transmission. One can save a lot by getting the right combination (planning).

A lift is really nice. I just completed a couple of long jobs that required me to lay on the ground for days on end (car on jack stands). I really, really hate that now. I have become a bit claustrophobic in my later years and after laying on the ground, I can hardly walk. If you have sufficient headspace in your garage, a 4-post will allow you to store a car on it while parking underneath. That is what I want. Projects under the car are often delayed or shoddily done by me to just get them over. I would gladly pay to do most of the work I perform if I could find a decent mechanic close by. I called a local mechanic shop to get them to do a simple job on my cherry, one owner, rust-free '94 Toyota 4Runner when I was travelling (did not have the right tools along). They told me that they do not work on cars older than 2005. Tools seem to cost me a lot as well.

I have 5 cars that are at least 20 years old (3 are Porsches). They all seem to have something wrong with them quite often...or I want to upgrade/change something. The same with vacation homes. I feel like I work many more hours trying to catch up with these "chores" than when I worked. So, limit your scope. I bought a sporty, luxurious new car with all the features I wanted last year and find myself driving it ahead of all these "classics" if on a longer trip, if there is traffic, bad weather, hot or cold temperatures or parking issues. For most folks, the retirement hobby car does not become their daily driver. It is almost always too nice to drive or just not quite nice enough.

[Tidybuoy]

All I can say is that I used to have an E28 (not an m) and that was one of my most favorite cars (except for the goofy power seat buttons with 100 choices). The M version will be much more expensive. I remember when I would be ordering parts and looking up on Pelican I would see brake rotors for about $125 and then next to it would be the M version for about 5 times as much.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

It takes the same amount of time and effort to fix up something desirable as it does to work on something obscure. You can spend your time polishing a turd or creating something valuable.
If I was you, I would find a 911, a beetle, an early mustang, or something desirable so at least your time is not wasted working on a car where the incremental increase in value is a few hundred bucks.

I am with unclebilly here, I have restored a handful of cars and would say a key to success is restoring something you really want, restoration (especially at the hobby level) is a labor of love so don't compromise. The world is full of half completed resto projects and I have bought some of them.

Originally Posted by ard

I'm not about to retire but I can see the proverbial finish line if I squint a bit.
I have hobbies to keep me busy but on my bucket list is restoring a car.

Adding on to my "get something you really want" sentiment, consider that for most of us the "finish line" for retirement is when you have enough assets that you no longer need to work to pay the bills etc. So imagine that you will hit that magic inflection point on January 1... doesn't that mean that every additional day you work past January 1 is gravy? i.e. if you work until July 1 instead you just earned 6 months of extra pay beyond what you needed to retire, so now you can spend it all guilt free on the car you really really want to restore

[908/930]

Billy you would take a VW beetle over a M5 really? LOL.

A 535is or M5 would be pretty easy to live with, the M5 having much more pricy items on it, IE cylinder head. You should be able to find a totally rust free 535is easy enough.

The M5 started production in 84, but not exported out here.

How much work do you really want to get into? Rust repairs on any old unibody cars is a pain.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

...
Adding on to my "get something you really want" sentiment, consider that for most of us the "finish line" for retirement is when you have enough assets that you no longer need to work to pay the bills etc. So imagine that you will hit that magic inflection point on January 1... doesn't that mean that every additional day you work past January 1 is gravy? i.e. if you work until July 1 instead you just earned 6 months of extra pay beyond what you needed to retire, so now you can spend it all guilt free on the car you really really want to restore

This is what I did. I kept going after I had enough to maintain our lifestyle into retirement (months turned to years) and was able to improve our lifestyle guilt-free after I retired (and had time to enjoy it). I was also a bit afraid that my calculations were not correct, and we would run out...and I would have to return to work in a low level, low paying job....so I hunkered down and padded the savings/investments and paid off the bills a bit more than necessary. Being old and broke is likely not fun.

[pavulon]

Several legitimate E28 power options. Single cam M20 or M30--each routinely turbo'd but an M30 with a big cam sounds great.

[Heel n Toe]

So a 540i wasn't in the running?

[greglepore]

E39's are tanks to drive compared to e28's. I've had both flavors of M5...