Elon Shoots A 3 Pointer....

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Turbo_pro

For all you squirrels that think government does it better.

In your face!

the government already did do better.

[red 928]

The Saturn V rocket was built by a team of companies, including Boeing, North American Aviation, Douglas Aircraft Company, and IBM:

Boeing Built the first stage

North American Aviation Built the second stage

McDonnell Douglas/IBM Built the third stage

Rocketdyne Provided 33 of the engines

The command and service module was developed and
built for NASA by North American Aviation

Grumman build the lunar landing module

and hundreds if not thousands of other smaller
companies contributed to the construction.

NASA issued contracts to private corporations
who in turn built the stuff.
But it isn't easy cutting all those checks

SpaceX designs and builds their own rockets.
In-house.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

starship only works outside earths orbit if they can launch enough of them, and refuel them in space, very rapidly, like hours. this is because in space, the fuel tanks essentially leak like crazy, so you have to launch 3 support refueling missions for every single starship you try to send outside of earth orbit.

so you need to land them, and refuel them, and then launch them again, in a few hours.

for the whole thing to work. otherwise star ship is a redundant, expensive, and pointless satellite launcher.

one of the critical issues with starship from the planning phase is that everything has to work perfectly, or it fails. the minimum viable product if you will, is total success, reliably. no matter what happens. with 60+ engines per starship, over and over again, with basically no inspection or repairs. a few engines on a support launch dont work ... all for nothing. one of the starships takes some damage on entry or retrieval? total failure. like the mission profile is bonkers, even under the best of circumstances is unlikely. this was already stockton rush levels of mis-engineered.

so no wonder the thing doesn't work, and its years behind, and 10s of billions over budget.

could it work? i mean you throw enough money at anything and it eventually *could* work. maybe elon's ego is big enough he will spend the billions, if he still has them.

meanwhile we have artemis over here. thats already orbited the moon. works. and its paid for. scheduled to take astronauts for a moon flyby in September 2025. NASA just over here, doing the work, for cheaper, faster, and far more reliably.

Compare Boeing next

[craigster59]

You know, I don't know what the big deal about Ferry Porsche is.

Henry Ford had already put Model T's on the road back in the early 20th century and they were cheaper and still got you from point A to point B.

[vash]

I am 99% sure there is another thread on this very forum, where the majority thinks ELON threw an airball....

has something to do with a truck-ish vehicle.....

[3rd_gear_Ted]

The capability to analyze a failure and make it work the next time is the difference between NASA and Space X.
Space X can take the chances NASA won't cuz they will lose funding.
5 iterations and you have a successful outcome, impossible for NASA

[Alan A]

You get what you pay for.
Who’s working at NASA when they can get 3x that at SpaceX.

Pay peanuts, get peanut eaters. It applies to most industries that require creativity.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Alan A

You get what you pay for.
Who’s working at NASA when they can get 3x that at SpaceX.

Pay peanuts, get peanut eaters. It applies to most industries that require creativity.

Elon and a LOT of his talented folks prolly couldn't pass and wouldn't pee in a bottle anyways

Any large Fed agency is a barge ... competing with speedboats ... imho.

edited: But bad drugs are really bad .... hence the Tesla truck

Nobody bats 1.000 ....

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

The capability to analyze a failure and make it work the next time is the difference between NASA and Space X.
Space X can take the chances NASA won't cuz they will lose funding.
5 iterations and you have a successful outcome, impossible for NASA

Which is the same as the Russian model…


🤔

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

The capability to analyze a failure and make it work the next time is the difference between NASA and Space X.
Space X can take the chances NASA won't cuz they will lose funding.
5 iterations and you have a successful outcome, impossible for NASA

the difference is that NASA doesn't have the failure in the first place.

there is no failure in space flight. thats how you build things to fly in space. thats why its expensive and time consuming. one oring failure and you all die. you test the **** out of everything. thats why you do things the way NASA does them: because it works.

test and fail is how you build software, not rockets. no one dies when you pop the stack.

its almost like elon missed that first year engineering school advice that he loves so much, that the development process for an engineered item should probably fit the actual item you are engineering. software development strategies dont work for rocket ships you ****ing idiot , elon. i actually went to my first year of engineering school.



NASA can't fail like SpaceX/Elon, youd put them up as a posterchild of failed government spending. but you celebrate when elon fails, over and over again. makes no ****ing sense. every time he takes the launch pad, its another challenger level disaster of mis-engineering, and you guys love it? insane. "it did a new thing!" no ... everyone ****ing died on it. doesnt much matter if it did a new thing if everyone is dead.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Compare Boeing next

i mean boeing .... classic american manufacturing company destroyed by investor' need for always increasing quarterly profits.

like the poster child for rotten from the inside out. gut everything that made you great, mortgage the name for short term profits, destroy the company, and then move on. a capitalists dream really. the only people that suffer are the passengers, the people who work for Boeing, the whole cities built around the company, you know, society, while you laugh and already have your money invested killing another company. its the dream really.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the difference is that NASA doesn't have the failure in the first place.

there is no failure in space flight. thats how you build things to fly in space. thats why its expensive and time consuming. one oring failure and you all die. you test the **** out of everything. thats why you do things the way NASA does them: because it works.

test and fail is how you build software, not rockets. no one dies when you pop the stack.

its almost like elon missed that first year engineering school advice that he loves so much, that the development process for an engineered item should probably fit the actual item you are engineering. software development strategies dont work for rocket ships you ****ing idiot , elon. i actually went to my first year of engineering school.



NASA can't fail like SpaceX/Elon, youd put them up as a posterchild of failed government spending. but you celebrate when elon fails, over and over again. makes no ****ing sense. every time he takes the launch pad, its another challenger level disaster of mis-engineering, and you guys love it? insane. "it did a new thing!" no ... everyone ****ing died on it. doesnt much matter if it did a new thing if everyone is dead.

The hardware for space flight is a proven established entity.
The software to make the G&C work the way it does is what Space X can do and NASA cannot.
The design paradigms that Space X pursue are leaps and bounds ahead of the stagnant beuracracy known as NASA.
NASA is a middle class welfare program at best, its time has come and gone.

The S/E portion of the contry is hooked on the NASA tit

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by 3rd_gear_Ted

The hardware for space flight is a proven established entity.
The software to make the G&C work the way it does is what Space X can do and NASA cannot.
The design paradigms that Space X pursue are leaps and bounds ahead of the stagnant beuracracy known as NASA.
NASA is a middle class welfare program at best, its time has come and gone.

The S/E portion of the contry is hooked on the NASA tit

cool, let me know when it works.

and is on budget.

and is on time.



the rest of the world is hooked on **** working. i know, its a sticky wicket.

i will make you a bet. artemis puts humans in the moons orbit LONG before starship does. if startship ever does. what is with you guys and wanting to cheer for losers?

[KNS]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the difference is that NASA doesn't have the failure in the first place.

Challenger, Columbia..?

I'm a huge fan of NASA and manned space flight since seeing some of the last Apollo and Skylab mission on TV when I was a little squirt. For how many decades has NASA been talking about going back to the moon or Mars (yes, I know it's not their fault funding gets slashed)? I would have hated to have been a NASA astronaut selected to go to the moon 20 years ago - you'd retire out of the program before NASA actually got you there. Musk is making things happen - now.

If Musk wants to spend his billions going to Mars, fantastic! I would think most nations of the world would be envious to have such an innovator to call their own.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by KNS

Challenger, Columbia..?

I'm a huge fan of NASA and manned space flight since seeing some of the last Apollo and Skylab mission on TV when I was a little squirt. For how many decades has NASA been talking about going back to the moon or Mars (yes, I know it's not their fault funding gets slashed)? I would have hated to have been a NASA astronaut selected to go to the moon 20 years ago - you'd retire out of the program before NASA actually got you there. Musk is making things happen - now.

If Musk wants to spend his billions going to Mars, fantastic! I would think most nations of the world would be envious to have such an innovator to call their own.

exactly right, when NASA fails, its a world changing event. when spaceX fails, thousands cheer and call it success. 1 tile, and 1 oring being bad, and people die. spaceX needs to do this 4 or 5 times, in a matter of about 3 hours, with zero failures of any kind, using 60+ engines per starship, in order *start* to do what starship claims to do.



the main problem KNS, is that starship is already 50% funded by the US taxpayer. money we will never get back. if it was just venture capital, id be far easier on it. but hes blowing up billions of our dollars.

NASA already wrote starship off, it will not meet design goals in time to be useful. it was originally funded in order to do resupply for a moon mission. NASA has written it off, it will not be capable in time. so like the serious people, doing the serious work, actually getting to space and building things that work ... have already written it off.

meanwhile, artemis works, is paid for, and has already been to the moon and back. like NASA won. already, before elon even cleared the tower.

[RNajarian]

CP, Before you completely disregard the achievements and contributions of SpaceX ask one question . . .

When NASA determined that the risks were too great to return Williams and Wilmore from the ISS on the Boeing Starliner what vehicle did they choose to essentially rescue the stranded astronauts?

A SpaceX Dragon spacecraft was chosen.

Musk is a manager, visionary, and maybe even a dreamer. However, to label him a genius is a stretch, regardless it would be disingenuous to dismiss his scientific contributions he has fueled the past two decades.

Yes NASA funded SpaceXs and Boeings development of their spacecraft. Boeing got more than twice the funding SpaceX got and has yet to deliver a human rated space craft (Starliner.)

Please don’t mistake me for a Musk “Fan Boy.”

Plenty of his projects do not impress me. A fair minded person would give him credit for SpaceXs achievements.

It is insincere to dismiss his accomplishments considering he can deliver 4 astronauts to the ISS for 56 million each where Roscosmos charges 65 million per astronaut and Starliner (Boeing) charges 90 million per astronaut.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by RNajarian

CP, Before you completely disregard the achievements and contributions of SpaceX ask one question . . .

When NASA determined that the risks were too great to return Williams and Wilmore from the ISS on the Boeing Starliner what vehicle did they choose to essentially rescue the stranded astronauts?

A SpaceX Dragon spacecraft was chosen.

Musk is a manager, visionary, and maybe even a dreamer. However, to label him a genius is a stretch, regardless it would be disingenuous to dismiss his scientific contributions he has fueled the past two decades.

Yes NASA funded SpaceXs and Boeings development of their spacecraft. Boeing got more than twice the funding SpaceX got and has yet to deliver a human rated space craft (Starliner.)

Please don’t mistake me for a Musk “Fan Boy.”

Plenty of his projects do not impress me. A fair minded person would give him credit for SpaceXs achievements.

It is insincere to dismiss his accomplishments considering he can deliver 4 astronauts to the ISS for 56 million each where Roscosmos charges 65 million per astronaut and Starliner (Boeing) charges 90 million per astronaut.

we are talking about starship here.

falcon 9/heavy for example, is IMO a far more significant achievement than starship, on account of it actually working. reliably, and cheaply.

but the starship mission profile is bananas. and its years from achieving it, too late, over budget, etc. something can be "cool" and also a colossal waist of money, time, and energy. its up to good management to decide which, and guess what elon's one job is to do?

notice though that falcon also had the least amount of elon meddling? kinda like how the only good tesla is the one he had the least amount of meddling in? the model 3/X/Y that all ride on the same platform. the S is garbage, and so is cybertruck ... which two did elon have the most meddling? the S and cyber truck.

so elon is bad at picking winning projects. hes bad at technical/program management. and he's a bad engineer. so what is he good at? all his pressers are lies (see also the new one about the tesla robots being faked ...), like he isnt even a good salesman of his ideas.

[craigster59]

I'd like to comment more on this thread but I've got some deadlines coming up this week.

I need to reestablish and enable cell service and internet to mountain communities ravaged by the recent hurricanes.

Then I need to rescue two Astronauts who have been stranded at a Space Station.

Then I need to figure a way to catch a Falcon 9 rocket for refueling and reuse later.

Oh wait, that's Elon. My bad.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by craigster59

I'd like to comment more on this thread but I've got some deadlines coming up this week.

I need to reestablish and enable cell service and internet to mountain communities ravaged by the recent hurricanes.

Then I need to rescue two Astronauts who have been stranded at a Space Station.

Then I need to figure a way to catch a Falcon 9 rocket for refueling and reuse later.

Oh wait, that's Elon. My bad.

bro, that internet thing ... was a scam. he signed them up for hundreds of dollars worth of monthly payments. how low do you have to be to be a ****ing billionaire, and scam people for hundreds of dollars, after they just had their houses destroyed by a hurricane? that is the worst a human can be.

if elons talking, its a lie/scam.

[cockerpunk]

remember when he turned a mine rescue into a test for an untested submarine, and when everyone said, "no, we can save these guys" he called them pedophiles? and then they saved the guys without the need of an untested submarine?

lol. what a joke of a person.