The hydrogen engine fueled by water. A tech revolution.

[john70t]

BOHICA the perpetual motion machine. But this time it might be real.

Inventors:
1). 1998 https://steemit.com/innovation/@apis-mellifica/they-poisoned-me-has-the-inventor-of-the-car-been-removed-from-the-water-by-large-oil-companies
The American inventor Stanley Meyer designed a motor on water. He claimed that water could be converted into hydrogen and oxygen, with less energy than released during the combustion of these gases.

2). Same Peugeot 405, different Iranian names?
https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/434002/First-Iranian-water-fuelled-engine-system-to-be-commercialized
https://supercarblondie.com/scientist-alaeddin-qassemi-invents-water-powered-car/

3). Toyota’s New Water Engine Will Destroy the EV Industry
https://old.bit_____chute.com/video/f3UrAZsuAYeY/ (remove spaces)
"The secret to water power is not to slowly separate it into hydrogen and oxygen between the two plates, but to get the dielectric (the water) of that capacitor to catastrophic breakdown abruptly. Like when a capacitor fails from too much voltage it blows a hole through the dielectric. It is just a matter of raising the voltage in steps. This is how Stanley Meyer was doing it."


The tech:
Remember taking 9v battery leads and sticking them in salt water? One bubbles H2 and the other O2.
I suspect the new process using plain water uses high voltage which may be pulsed. Perhaps water vapor is applied. It's all proprietary right now.

Storing Hydrogen in tanks is useless and dangerous: Low density. High pressures. Leaks. =Hindenburg.

So this new tech creates hydrogen right near the intake point on demand in an ICE/Otto cycle.
The 'fuel' is kept as water until then.
Good for automobiles, busses, trains, planes, home furnaces, gererators, etc.


https://www.powereng.com/library/6-things-to-remember-about-hydrogen-vs-natural-gas
Hydrogen’s adiabatic flame temperature is approximately 500 °F hotter than natural gas.

NOX still has to be controlled:
https://www.thechemicalengineer.com/features/hydrogen-the-burning-question/
A diffusion flame is where the incoming gas is surrounded by the products of combustion where the gas and oxygen in the air have reacted. This sleeve or cloud of exhaust products slows the combustion because the gas has now got to diffuse out through the cloud, and the oxygen has to diffuse inward. Hence the name “diffusion flame”. This flame is usually slow enough such that the heat of combustion is radiated to the surroundings without reaching the critical NOx temperature of 1,350oC.


General use TBD.
Actual efficiency and materials required TBD.
But if want a clean new world without air pollution, this is how it can be done.

[oldE]

Remember this statement:
There is no free lunch.

Best
Les

[pwd72s]

Everything I've read of hydrogen suggests it takes more energy to produce it than it delivers.

[IROC]

I can't believe this kind of stuff is still circulating around. Obviously it doesn't work.

[GH85Carrera]

Thee water engine would almost certainly require very very pure water, delivered in glass jars. All impurities would leave a residue.

And, I suspect a slight revision of the laws of thermodynamics.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Everything I've read of hydrogen suggests it takes more energy to produce it than it delivers.

Well that's a given...
But if a hydrogen 'carburetor' is possible and similarly-efficient to petrol, it would make sense wouldn't it?

Odd that the USPTO won't find their own number..
https://www-search.uspto.gov/WWW-search.html

But Google will..
" Hydrogen carburetor for generating hydrogen to run an internal combustion engine and method thereof "
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20110210008A1/en

The new process of hydrogen-harvesting must be more viable than the old carb type.
If it works..it will be a game changer.

[GH85Carrera]

I suspect much like "cold fusion" it is just a pipe dream.

I will believe it when I see it has passed several tests by outside testing scientists.

[red 928]

[Alan A]

So you burn hydrogen and get what again?

You think you can go from water to hydrogen + oxygen to water and get enough energy to power [anything] out of that.

I bet you get scammed left right and center being that gullible. How many hydrogen carburetor warranties did they sell you this week?

[john70t]

Converting hydrogen at the point of combustion solves all the problems.
Just wait. Even a decade or so. If we don't do it someone else will.
(twittling thumbs and whistling)

[Mahler9th]

Makes me think about Smokey Yunick.

[flipper35]

Can't we just drop some sodium or potassium in the water tank to get what we need quickly?

[aschen]

Am I missing green text here? Sure you can unburn water with electricity to re burn or use in a fuel cell, but it's an assault to thermodynamic good taste. In no way is a hydrogen powered car a water powered car, it is an EV with a terrible battery. Unless solar and wind make excess power nearly free this will never be a good ifea

[unclebilly]

Electrolysis, or hydrolysis (where hydrogen and oxygen are produced from water) is an endothermic reaction. This means you need to put electricity (or energy) in to make it happen. This is the latent heat of formation.

When the bonds are broken either during combustion or via an electrolytic reaction involving a fuel cell, you get a portion of that energy back.

Les has it right, there is no free ride here.

The theoretical highest efficiency you can theoretically get with a solid oxide fuel cell like the ones I started my career developing is Carnot Efficiency, about 64%. In reality, you might get 40%.

[mjohnson]

Originally Posted by IROC

I can't believe this kind of stuff is still circulating around. Obviously it doesn't work.

... sure it doesn't ...

I hear that this is like the 100mpg carburetor. Maybe? - I'm just thinking. ...just askin' the question.


More seriously, using our lowliest of the elements is awesome until you actually go to find some. Currently it's not looking so awesome on a carbon or net-impact basis (but... hint, hint... nuclear/solar/etc...)

Though, selfishly, hydrogen issues in metals makes many of us metallurgists feel funny (down there). It's really interesting!

[john70t]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Electrolysis, or hydrolysis (where hydrogen and oxygen are produced from water) is an endothermic reaction. This means you need to put electricity (or energy) in to make it happen. This is the latent heat of formation.

The theoretical highest efficiency you can theoretically get with a solid oxide fuel cell like the ones I started my career developing is Carnot Efficiency, about 64%. In reality, you might get 40%.

That sounds fair. Hopefully that might change in the future with different techniques. If the choice was ever between hauling petrol or water I'd take the last one.


I read it completely wrong. It doesn't use any new new hydrolysis splitting technique..

It looks like just standard direct-injection hydrogen into an ICE. Then it uses water injection every other time or as needed to be a quasi 6-cycle steam engine. Already been done. Smaller radiator probably or perhaps one day no radiator will be needed. That water injection stroke also cools the motor from inside the cylinder. Hot-Cold-Hot-Cold. There is still a H2 storage tank but it's more efficient than H2 alone. Here I was getting all hot n bothered but am now disappoint in ya'll Toyota.

https://myelectricsparks.com/toyota-presents-the-first-water-engine-2500-oc-and-dual-injection-to-outperform-hydrogen/

[unclebilly]

Back in 2000, I designed the fuel cell stacks in the trunk of this BMW with a hydrogen powered V-12 under the hood.

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/a40677678/bmw-750hl-hydrogen-v12-sedan/

[masraum]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Back in 2000, I designed the fuel cell stacks in the trunk of this BMW with a hydrogen powered V-12 under the hood.

https://www.autoweek.com/car-life/a40677678/bmw-750hl-hydrogen-v12-sedan/

That's really cool!

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by IROC

I can't believe this kind of stuff is still circulating around.

+1

Can you believe it has been 19 years since this legendary thread? Does anyone want a free gererator?

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by john70t

That sounds fair. Hopefully that might change in the future with different techniques. If the choice was ever between hauling petrol or water I'd take the last one.


I read it completely wrong. It doesn't use any new new hydrolysis splitting technique..

It looks like just standard direct-injection hydrogen into an ICE. Then it uses water injection every other time or as needed to be a quasi 6-cycle steam engine. Already been done. Smaller radiator probably or perhaps one day no radiator will be needed. That water injection stroke also cools the motor from inside the cylinder. Hot-Cold-Hot-Cold. There is still a H2 storage tank but it's more efficient than H2 alone. Here I was getting all hot n bothered but am now disappoint in ya'll Toyota.

https://myelectricsparks.com/toyota-presents-the-first-water-engine-2500-oc-and-dual-injection-to-outperform-hydrogen/

That’s my understanding of how to make hydrogen cost effective for use in a vehicle. Not a 100% one fuel or another, but both at the same time. I was bored one night and did the calculations for a type 1 vw engine. Can’t sustain hydrolysis short of using a generator head on the engine. But dual fuel would substantially increase mpg. No free lunch, but we’re talking India priced lunches.