My son " I dont think you are as smart as you think you are "

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

I've always contended there is a difference between wisdom and knowledge, but I can see where a low-ish IQ person could have a level of wisdom.

I suppose it would be useful to define the terms wisdom, intelligence, and knowledge before we get into a serious discussion of them.

IQ isnt a measure of intelligence. like scientifically its just not.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

I had a Econ professor in college who explained the difference to me:

Smart is knowing the math, the data; Wisdom is knowing how to communicate what you think the data says. Then b willing to adjust.

He made a great living, and I helped in my limited way, in being a communications portal for really, really smart people to get their ideas heard and, more importantly, funded.

Edit: He has another Bon Mot I remember: Smart is knowing how to structure the experiment, wisdom is learning what the experiment really means.

I have not thought of this guy for a decade. What a smart and wise person he was.

so wisdom is just being a theater kid?

im joking, but also not.

the longer i go in life the more i realize how limiting my engineering education and knowledge is, and how important it is that everyone in life understand literature, and as an extension ... theater.

because life is theater. engineering is theater. no good thing comes about without good theater about it.

akin's law of spacecraft design:

20. A bad design with a good presentation is doomed eventually. A good design with a bad presentation is doomed immediately.

its always just been theater.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

IQ isnt a measure of intelligence. like scientifically its just not.

Yours is probably very high

Alas ... you will argue about about it.

Mine is too .... so you might win that one

[jhynesrockmtn]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Timely...

I'm going through a difficult time with my son & we haven't spoken for nearly 6 months (it's really complicated). I've always been close with my two daughters but for some reason my son has become distant in recent years. He has a great job, his own house and a really nice G.F. I really can't see what the problem is!

Hoping for a peaceful Christmas.

Best of luck with your son. I think daughter's, women in general, are just better communicators. Son's naturally work more at being independent of their fathers. Mine has never thought I knew anything :-)

Maybe this holiday season will sprinkle a bit of magic in the right direction.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by KC911

Yours is probably very high

Alas ... you will argue about about it.

Mine is too .... so you might win that one

like its been proven over and over and over again. IQ is not an objective measure of intellect.

sorry.

there is no way to decouple culture, education quality etc, from intelligence in a test. this has again, been proven over and over and over again.





wait till you learn about the bar and the SAT ....

[Cajundaddy]

Well, this is the widely accepted definition of IQ. Some folks like to redefine lots of words to align them with their particular world view and take a novel position but I don't see a lot of weasel words in the Merriam-Webster definition below:

IQ
noun
ˌī-ˈkyü
Synonyms of IQ
1
: a number used to express the apparent relative intelligence of a person: such as
a
: a score determined by one's performance on a standardized intelligence test relative to the average performance of others of the same age
b
: the ratio of the mental age (as reported on a standardized test) to the chronological age multiplied by 100

[herr_oberst]

My son " I dont think you are as smart as you think you are "

"My son, I don't think you're as smart as you think you are "

I mostly heard the second version as I grew older.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Well, this is the widely accepted definition of IQ. Some folks like to redefine lots of words to align them with their particular world view and take a novel position but I don't see a lot of weasel words in the Merriam-Webster definition below:

IQ
noun
ˌī-ˈkyü
Synonyms of IQ
1
: a number used to express the apparent relative intelligence of a person: such as
a
: a score determined by one's performance on a standardized intelligence test relative to the average performance of others of the same age
b
: the ratio of the mental age (as reported on a standardized test) to the chronological age multiplied by 100

im sorry that science disagrees with you.

its esp dumb because the implication is that i personally have some IQ result that i disagree with, but ima white, man, who has a technical education, and grew up in middle American culture, with borderline neurodivergent tendencies, i have only taken 1 IQ test, for a job, and they didnt tell me the score, but they gave me the job at the end of the interview.

so like i have all the cultural, neurodivergent, and educational advantages on an IQ test and thus score extremely high. because the test was made for people like me, of course i do well.





but the body of scientific research on the topic of testing for intelligence, shows there is very little correlation with IQ tests and intellect. they do tend to be very good predictors of autism in white boys esp for the example.

those are just the facts. sorry.



fun fact, the SAT was designed to be racist, and the Bar test has no relationship to the skill or success of a lawyer either. so like standardized testing has very little impact on outcomes, and is a generally a poor predictor of results. again, this is scientific consensus.

[KFC911]

No doubt SATs and other standardized tests are a "rigged game".... they measure "something"... but what... I dunno?

I always aced them ... got accolades for being a great test taker too

Meh .... those scores don't mean doodly squat in the bigly picture....

"It ain't got no gas in it"

The OP has figured out "life" .... in spades imo.

A LOT of folks here have ... finding a path that works for them.... all differently.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

im sorry that science disagrees with you.

its esp dumb because the implication is that i personally have some IQ result that i disagree with, but ima white, man, who has a technical education, and grew up in middle American culture, with borderline neurodivergent tendencies, i have only taken 1 IQ test, for a job, and they didnt tell me the score, but they gave me the job at the end of the interview.

so like i have all the cultural, neurodivergent, and educational advantages on an IQ test and thus score extremely high. because the test was made for people like me, of course i do well.





but the body of scientific research on the topic of testing for intelligence, shows there is very little correlation with IQ tests and intellect. they do tend to be very good predictors of autism in white boys esp for the example.

those are just the facts. sorry.



fun fact, the SAT was designed to be racist, and the Bar test has no relationship to the skill or success of a lawyer either. so like standardized testing has very little impact on outcomes, and is a generally a poor predictor of results. again, this is scientific consensus.

Well, if "the body of scientific research" actually says what you think it says, the definition above would not be the most widely accepted definition of IQ. The "fun fact" is that this definition is still the most widely accepted view. Just because you don't like a definition does not render that definition false.

I am aware of a few fringe studies by leftist zealots who have written flawed papers on this subject attempting to redefine IQ but they have been thoroughly debunked. The fly in the ointment that falsifies your view is mostly Asian immigrants from China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and India. They come to this country from very different cultures, very different life experience, different color skin, different language, different educational experiences, and immediately falsify these IQ studies while reinforcing the prevailing view as quoted above.

Regarding SAT scores, these Asian kids further destroy the false narrative by Leftist zealots by routinely scoring at the very top of these standardized tests with exactly zero white privilege, foreign culture, low economic status, english as a second language. They then get victimized by the racist DEI squad and their excellent SAT scores are devalued because they "score too high" and are the wrong skin color. Why do these Asian kids routinely score so highly on SAT scores? Their parents value education and they were studying hard for the tests while others were out hanging with friends.

Both Coleman Hughes and Dr. Thomas Sowell have looked at these questions in depth and have shown that the "white privilege" DEI narrative paraded by leftist academics is patently false. I encourage you read their works and decide for yourself if they have merit.

Protip: They do. They are at the forefront of these questions of standardized testing vs race and they clearly show that "racial bias" is a load of nonsense.
https://www.capitalismmagazine.com/2020/08/the-diversity-fraud/

Happy reading!

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Well, if "the body of scientific research" actually says what you think it says, the definition above would not be the most widely accepted definition of IQ. The "fun fact" is that this definition is still the most widely accepted view. Just because you don't like a definition does not render that definition false.

I am aware of a few fringe studies by leftist zealots who have written flawed papers on this subject attempting to redefine IQ but they have been thoroughly debunked. The fly in the ointment that falsifies your view is mostly Asian immigrants from China, Japan, Korea, Indonesia, and India. They come to this country from very different cultures, very different life experience, different color skin, different language, different educational experiences, and immediately falsify these IQ studies while reinforcing the prevailing view as quoted above.

Regarding SAT scores, these Asian kids further destroy the false narrative by Leftist zealots by routinely scoring at the very top of these standardized tests with exactly zero white privilege, foreign culture, low economic status, english as a second language. They then get victimized by the racist DEI squad and their excellent SAT scores are devalued because they "score too high" and are the wrong skin color. Why do these Asian kids routinely score so highly on SAT scores? Their parents value education and they were studying hard for the tests while others were out hanging with friends.

Both Coleman Hughes and Dr. Thomas Sowell have looked at these questions in depth and have shown that the "white privilege" DEI narrative paraded by leftist academics is patently false. I encourage you read their works and decide for yourself if they have merit.

Protip: They do. They are at the forefront of these questions of standardized testing vs race and they clearly show that "racial bias" is a load of nonsense.

Happy reading!

:shrug: you brought a knife to a gun fight and now your trying to change the subject to get the thread PARFed.

like im sorry, IQ tests dont work. this is well understood in the scientific community. you can't decouple cultural and education from the test, so you are not actually testing intelligence.

you can try and change the subject all you want to, but you are just wrong here. sorry.

[Cajundaddy]

... And the most widely accepted definition of IQ according to "science" is still the one listed above from Merriam Webster, not your fantasy definition.

You forgot to load your gun.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

... And the most widely accepted definition of IQ according to "science" is still the one listed above from Merriam Webster, not your fantasy definition.

You forgot to load your gun.

you brought a knife to a gunfight. sorry dude.

[fintstone]

It seems to me that the IQ tests we were administered in our youth turned out to be very, very predictive...as did the SATs and other standardized tests. At least for those I am familiar with. Of course, I imagine having high scores or doing well on tests likely influenced other behaviors. They did not disclose IQ scores to children when/where I grew up...so you did not really know how well you did on those until you were older. I did not know my score until I was a senior in high school. Too late to influence my expectations/direction (based on knowing my IQ). Of course, other standardized tests (showing what you had learned) affected placement.

I realized they have adjusted standardized tests greatly over the years... likely because the scores did not seem to say what they wanted them to say.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

like its been proven over and over and over again. IQ is not an objective measure of intellect.

sorry.

there is no way to decouple culture, education quality etc, from intelligence in a test. this has again, been proven over and over and over again.

Based on this I’d be willing to assert that you think math is racist and calculus requires a safe space [so you can avoid integration].

[KFC911]

Methinks most placing on the far right of the bell curve for standardized tests are prolly gonna do quite well in life...

So will a bigly segment that aren't good at taking standardized tests.

I was never told my IQ ... but 99 percentile scores on every section from 7th grade onward.

Before that .... TOTALLY under the radar .... I would be given drugs today were I a child .... prolly?

What metrics would CP use ....

A + B = 15?

That's racist if everything is binary

[Tobra]

I don't think anyone is as smart as they think they are

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I don't think anyone is as smart as they think they are

I know for a fact that I'm not!

That's wisdom