CNC Sheet Metal Forming, plus a Really Cool Car

[Jeff Higgins]

When I started my career at Boeing in 1980, I caught the tail end of model making with the sort of "buck" as shown in this video. By the time I retired, I was very deep into the CNC machining of models we developed in a 3D CAD program (Dassault's CATIA, Computer Aided Three Dimensional Applications). I went from making models by hand as an apprentice level tool maker, building bucks as shown and then sweeping plaster over them to establish the final contour, to being a company wide "subject matter expert" (when I finished my degree and became a tooling engineer) in complex compound contour surface modeling in CATIA. I lived and worked the broad scope of development shown in this video from beginning to end, so I find this to be exceptionally cool to see. I know just what they have gone through to get where they are today.

[GH85Carrera]

Very cool machine. I bet it costs a few bucks.

I wonder how long before Kindig has one. They embrace a lot of new high tech machines.

[TimT]

That is amazing.....I've spent hours beating a panel on a leather bag full of shot to hammer out some shapes...And have time shrinking and stretching shapes...

This makes all those learned skills obsolete.. though I believe those skills should still be learned..

Anyway I could never afford one.. I'm struggling with a decision to buy a CNC router t able.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Very cool machine. I bet it costs a few bucks.

I wonder how long before Kindig has one. They embrace a lot of new high tech machines.

Google has it at 50k. So it’s cheap.

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by TimT

That is amazing.....I've spent hours beating a panel on a leather bag full of shot to hammer out some shapes...And have time shrinking and stretching shapes...

This makes all those learned skills obsolete.. though I believe those skills should still be learned..

Anyway I could never afford one.. I'm struggling with a decision to buy a CNC router t able.

I've watched friends do that, never ceases to amaze me. You sir, have a true skill and Talent.
While a machine can mimic it, it can never truly duplicate it. I'd much rather watch a true artist than a machine.
I'm not saying that the technology isn't impressive, cause it is, and with the guys experienced in the field sharing their history is what really makes this thread. Thank you Jeff for sharing.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Google has it at 50k. So it’s cheap.

Yea, for shops like Kindig, that is cheap. It can do iin short order what a skilled craftsman would spend days. And he has the volume to keep the skilled metalworkers he has. Someone has to blend those panels together. He has some state of the art 3D printers. This is just another cool tool.

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Very cool, love this type of advanced manufacturing technology

[cockerpunk]

been a long time since i touched CATIA lol

[Rusty Heap]

Jeff, describe the HUGE Interior Sidewall Panel Presses speaking of complex surfaces and contours.

5x8' surface area chromium nickel plated steam heated surfaces........and what, 300-400 ton?

brute force manufacturing for big composite aircraft sidewall panels where you look out through your window in flight.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Alan A

Google has it at 50k. So it’s cheap.

Too expensive. Imma need to print my own. Along with a house.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

been a long time since i touched CATIA lol

Back in the late 1980's CATIA version 3 was the surface modeling software. V4 got even better, in the mid 1990's. No one else could touch it for modeling complex compound contour surfaces. Kind of clunky for other stuff, but unparalleled for those compound contours. V5, which came out in the early 2000's, was not as good, but it still led the industry in this specific kind of modeling.

For those of you wondering what a "compound contour" is, think surfaces like the quarter panels on our beloved 911s. It is far simpler modeling what we call "ruled surfaces", i.e. surfaces with contour in only one direction, like a cylinder. Extruded structural shapes like steel or aluminum angle, channel, I-beam, etc. are child's play compared to complex compound contours.

I "grew up" as a plaster/plastic toolmaker/model maker. I learned to model in that ubiquitous brown clay so common in the automotive industry so many years ago. In addition, I learned to "sweep plaster" over templates similar to the buck shown in the video, wherein we actually filled in that egg crate to form the final contours of the parts we were modeling.

I learned from some real masters of the craft. We hired an industrial design firm by the name of Walter, Dorwin, Teague, and Associates to design all of the interior panels on Boeing aircraft. The guy from that company under whom I apprenticed had done the clay buck for the late 1950's Chrysler 300, the car featured in the movie Christine. He taught me the craft.

Well, in the early 1990's, I found myself standing next to a CNC machine as it whittled out an interior sidewall (window) panel for the 747-400. By that time I was a shop lead with over 100 toolmakers and a couple of model makers (I was both) working under me. I must have been the only one who "got the memo" - our work here was done. That machine completed most of that sidewall panel in one shift, work that would have taken two or three guys on my crew several months to complete.

I had dropped out of college at 18 when my father died, with one of my uncles telling me "son, you are now the man of the house. You can finish school later. Time to get to work". He got me that job at Boeing. It had now played out. I was married, two kids, and looking at my trade vanishing in a pile of high density foam chips at the base of a CNC machine.

So I finished school and became a tool engineer, now designing the stuff I used to make by hand. Our interiors design consultants were still there, but being even older than me, they had no interest in (or hope of learning, really) 3D computer modeling. So, with our history together, and the understanding of what they were looking for aesthetically, I became "their man". I knew the "language", and could make it happen in CATIA.

I spent the next decade doing all of the surface modeling of all of the complex contoured interior panels in all models of Boeing aircraft. Ceiling panels, stowage bin doors, sidewall panels, and others (I also did a lot of exterior aero surfaces, like wing to body fairing panels, stabilizer and vertical fin roots, etc. but you can't see those from your seats...). I'm rather proud to say that I did all of the surface modeling on each and every one of those panels on every currently in service model of Boeing aircraft. I worked hand in hand with the WDT&A design people to put their designs into the CAD world.

Originally Posted by Rusty Heap

Jeff, describe the HUGE Interior Sidewall Panel Presses speaking of complex surfaces and contours.

5x8' surface area chromium nickel plated steam heated surfaces........and what, 300-400 ton?

brute force manufacturing for big composite aircraft sidewall panels where you look out through your window in flight.

Boeing, of course, had to have a way to manufacture those panels. Being the tooling engineer that I was, the surface modeling for WDT&A was far from my main responsibility. That responsibility centered around the forming tools for these panels. The first step was actually forming a fiberglass, kevlar, or carbon fiber panel built up with a Nomex honeycomb core. We used various weaves of those materials that were pre-impregnated with a thermo setting epoxy resin. The build up of pre-impregnated skins and whatever core material was required where pressed into shape on a 900 ton press loaded with the appropriate mold die. These mold dies were heated with high pressure steam routed through holes drilled through the dies, and featured the contour of the deserted part. Each half of the die for the large panels could weigh up to 40,000 pounds. The "charge" (panel buildup) was laid into the open die, the die was closed with up to 900 tons of pressure, and the panel was formed. The heated die cured the thermo setting resin.

I was the only guy at the entire Boeing Company doing this surface modeling for interiors panels and designing these tools for over fifteen years. I left the Interiors division after having done this for ten years, joining our AOG unit. Funny, though, since unless there is a disabled aircraft somewhere AOG can get rather slow, I continued this design work for Interiors until I retired. I did it "at home in my spare time" so to speak, between AOG assignments. I did manage to wean the Interiors division off of my modeling/design teat, but they wound up with several people doing full time what I had, in the end, wound up doing part time. The 787 was my "last hurrah". So when you ride on those things and stow your carry on, or look out that window, think of me - those are very much "my" panels. And, well, on 737, 767, 777, and 747 as well.

So, yeah, I had the grand privilege of having timed it just right. I learned to do all of this by hand from some real masters of the trade, and I had the privilege of helping to usher in today's CAD modeling equivalent. It was a fun ride. I had a great career. All of that is what had led me to my interest in what is shown in this video - I lived and worked every step of all of this. I know what they are going through, what it takes to get where they are. My hat is off to them.

[Denirooney]

That’s an incredible journey—from plaster bucks to high-precision modeling in CATIA! The transition you experienced mirrors how far the industry has come. We now see that same evolution in CNC automotive parts—the level of accuracy and efficiency in modern fabrication is insane. It’s a real appreciation of both art and engineering.

[LWJ]

My buddy was a high end bodyman. He spent approximately one year fitting an aluminum hood to an AC Cobra that had been crunched. This sort of changes things.

[Otter74]

Great post - thanks for sharing all that, Jeff.