A baby is born, incompetent doctors,and a hospital bait and switch

[WolfeMacleod]

On July 15th, my daughter Rhiannon Siobhan Alarcon Macleod was born in Manila, Philippines.
In March, mom was fired from her job for being pregnant. Lost her medical coverage, and had't been able to find new work.



Got to love this medical system here in the Philippines. And the "skill" of the doctors. Or lack thereof.

I chose this hospital because no other hospital or OBGYN here seemed competent. A friend here recently had a baby at a "public" hospital and they nearly killed her. Over the last nine months, I've come back and forth from the US to the Phils several times and been to various medical appointments with mom. The medical care is beyond sub-par here, to say the least.

St Lukes hospital had a maternity/delivery package. 65,000 phillipine pesos. About $1100 USD. We had already discussed it withthe OBGYN. Good to go... or so we thought.
C-section day comes, they want to deliver two weeks early. Admissions denies us the maternity package because.... mom has type 2 diabetes. That had already been discussed withthe OBGYN who said it should be no problem with regards to the maternity package. (the vast majority of Filipinos have diabetes, I suspect, due to the insane amount of rice and fast food and questionable street food they eat, because fast food is cheaper than home cooked food.) "Rice is life" or so they say. Until it kills you. Nevermind that everything here is sickeningly sweet.

Instead of the planned 65,000 pesos, the hospital bill for mom turns out to be over half a million. A hair under $9000. Must pay before discharge. Or else.
Within hours they had whisked the baby off because of a bit of jaundice and minor breathing issue.

The next day, she's worse. She's stopped breathing a few times and the doctors observed her turn blue twice. It turns out that an improperly inserted feeding tube had given her aspiration pneumonia. Apparently blowing feeding fluid into her lungs. They discovered that during an X-ray, when a doctor started going nuts about how far the tube had been inserted.
So she's been in the ICU ever since, on antibiotics and under the blue light.

thankfully, she's getting better, albeit slowly. We don't know how much longer she'll be there. Slowly but surely, they are lowering the oxygen feed.



So now the ICU bill is ramping up quickly. They want 50% of the new half million pesos right away. Or else.
Ok, so this is a lot more expensive than it was suposed to be. And I'm running out of options since business has been at a near standstill for months now.

Not only are the doctors imcompetent, but so are the notary publics. Had to take five copies of the birth certificate to get notarized. Notary screwed up every one of them by not following the instructions that were stapled to them.

There's a lot of talk about the Philippines being cheaper than the US. That may be true for some things, such as housing (which is pretty sub-par as well) , or car repairs (Toyota dealer labor rate here is $12/hr) but when you want to buy something, you're going to pay through the nose. Or, apparently, when you need to have a baby at a reasonably modern facility with reasonably modern equipment.

[ErVikingo]

Beautiful baby, congratulations and blessings. I truly love that photo of the 3 of you together.

Hope all medical issues get resolved quickly and completely.

I spent some time in the Philippines ("pilipines") and experienced some of what you mention.

[rfuerst911sc]

Good luck to mom and baby .

[masraum]

Best wishes for great health and long life for the three of you.
Go Rhiannon go!

Dealing with crappy medical sucks, but probably 1000x more when it's the situation that you're in with baby and momma having to deal with it.

[70SATMan]

Nice looking pack there Wolf!

Got nothing for you on the medical care she’s receiving there except my hopes that you’re able to navigate those treacherous waters.

So, what's the “or else”?!!? Can’t imagine they could put a lien on your kid, hold her hostage but, I wouldn’t put it past some countries.

[wdfifteen]

What a beautiful baby. That's a terrible way to treat human beings, sad that humans can have so little compassion for each other. Good luck to you all!

[jhynesrockmtn]

Congrats on baby, I hope she and Mom heal up soon. Nothing about what you describe surprises me given where you are. My son has spent time there and his wife has two adopted brothers from the Phillipine's.

[David Inc.]

That incident with the feeding tube sounds terrifying, I can't imagine what that was like. I'm glad to hear she's doing better now.

[john walker's workshop]

Congrats sir, what an ordeal!

[pwd72s]

Hope all ends well.

[Arizona_928]

Tricare was 150ish

In-law who works at the local hospital group paid to the catastrophic cap on the deductible, so 5k with no complications. I think what’s interesting, a lot of gals are ripping their rear ends and docs aren’t performing episiotomies. Yolo i guess.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Nice looking pack there Wolf!

Got nothing for you on the medical care she’s receiving there except my hopes that you’re able to navigate those treacherous waters.

So, what's the “or else”?!!? Can’t imagine they could put a lien on your kid, hold her hostage but, I wouldn’t put it past some countries.

A year or two ago, mom's mother went into the hospital at a place here called Medical City. It seems that if you're not able to continually pay the running bill, they'll simply stop treating. When mom could not keep paying the bill, they stopped treating her mother. As a result, she died.

We have been continually asked to keep paying the running bill. Last night I paid another 380,000 philippine pesos, or about $6700.
I asked the guy at the payment counter what would happen if we were unable to keep paying the running bill. He answered with a glare and what could only be described as an unpleasant smile. He wouldn't elaborate.

Medical City continually hounds mom for payment of her mother's bills. Since she died, they'd been taking 11,000 pesos per paycheck from her bank account. When she was working, she made about 39,000 php a month, or about $680usd. And that's a high paying job here in the Phils.
Since she was fired for being pregnant, she hasn't been able to pay down her debt for that. Anything she puts into her bank account is immediately taken by the hospital.
Because of the debt with Medical City, she is not able to go there again for any medical issues, untill that debt is paid off. They will refuse service.

We stil have not been hit with the doctors fees yet for the NICU ward. Only the hospital fees.



That said, the baby has been taken off the oxygen, the feeding tube has been removed, and she may come home in the next day or so.



There are indeed some countries who's hospitals will detain patients if they cannot pay the bill. And while you're detained in the hospital, the bill keeps rising.

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Congrats on baby, I hope she and Mom heal up soon. Nothing about what you describe surprises me given where you are. My son has spent time there and his wife has two adopted brothers from the Phillipine's.

I have to wonder what brought your son here. Has he talked about his experiences here? This place is such a mess. Beautiful country, beautiful people. Horrendous infrastructure, and next to zero worker or consumer protections.
If you quit your job here, your employer can sue you for the cost to hire and train a new employee. Bought a thing at a store that's defective? Forget about returning it. You should have tested it at the store. (we bought light bulbs last night, they made us test them)
And the food quality leaves a lot to be desired. Meat cuts are awful, and veggies at the store are nearly spoiled.
Don't step in a puddle, you'll probably get leptospirosis.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Tricare was 150ish

In-law who works at the local hospital group paid to the catastrophic cap on the deductible, so 5k with no complications. I think what’s interesting, a lot of gals are ripping their rear ends and docs aren’t performing episiotomies. Yolo i guess.

My understanding is that the natural tear is actually better than an episiotomy in most cases.

While an episiotomy was once a common practice to prevent severe tearing during childbirth, current medical recommendations favor letting the perineum tear naturally, as it generally leads to better outcomes. Episiotomies are no longer considered routine and are only performed when medically necessary.
Here's why:

Natural tears often heal better:
. Studies show that natural tears, especially those that are minor, often heal faster and with less pain than episiotomies, according to Parents.
Episiotomies can increase the risk of complications:
. Episiotomies can sometimes lead to deeper tears (third or fourth degree) which are more difficult to heal and may cause complications like fecal incontinence, according to What to Expect.
Routine episiotomies are not recommended:
. The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) advises against routine episiotomies.
Episiotomies are only considered when medically necessary:
. Doctors may consider an episiotomy in situations where the baby is in distress, forceps or vacuum-assisted delivery is needed, or there are other complications that necessitate a quicker delivery, according to Johns Hopkins Medicine.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

That said, the baby has been taken off the oxygen, the feeding tube has been removed, and she may come home in the next day or so.

Outstanding news! Excellent!

[jhynesrockmtn]

I have to wonder what brought your son here. Has he talked about his experiences here?

My son was Army SF and learned Tagalog. His unit was all over Asia and trained there. He doesn't talk much about any of his deployments or training missions. His wife's family adopted kids from orphanages there as well. She has two younger brothers and an Uncle that are from the Philippine's. The living standards and what I would consider the graft you are experiencing are pretty common there, and in many of the areas he has served.

[Tobra]

GD horror story

You already know my thoughts on this deal

[masraum]

Wolfe, are mother and baby home and out of the hospital?

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by Tobra

GD horror story

You already know my thoughts on this deal

I do, and your message is appreciated.

Originally Posted by masraum

Wolfe, are mother and baby home and out of the hospital?

The hospital booted mom out about two days after deliverry. I'm not sur ehow long hospitals normally keep a C-section recipient, but that seems awfully quick to me.
The baby came home a couple days ago. 11 days in NICU, I think it was. So far, doing well. The worst thing is that we can't get her to latch to the nipple. So, pump andbottle-feed it is, for now.

The hardest part right now is getting mom fed with good quality foods. Meat cuts and vegetables here leave a lot to be desired. Veggies almost spoiled straight from the store, or nowhere near being ripe. The worst meat cuts I've ever seen... indiscrimitately cut from the cow? Fat and grisly. I can''t find a freaking pot roast. Or a potato larger than an egg for baking. Or a ripe tomato. Finding food is a nightmare. And we can't really take the baby out anywhere because outside likes to make babies (and adults, for that matter) very ill here. It's not a healthy environment. I rarely get sick, and have gotten whatver supercold they have each time I've been here. It lasts weeks. And it's hard-core. Just walking in the rain will make you sicker than you've ever been.

This tour of the local public market says a lot about the food. Notice no ice on the meats or fish that you'll see.... and it's 80-90 degrees outside all the time.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

The hospital booted mom out about two days after deliverry. I'm not sur ehow long hospitals normally keep a C-section recipient, but that seems awfully quick to me.
The baby came home a couple days ago. 11 days in NICU, I think it was. So far, doing well. The worst thing is that we can't get her to latch to the nipple. So, pump andbottle-feed it is, for now.

The hardest part right now is getting mom fed with good quality foods. Meat cuts and vegetables here leave a lot to be desired. Veggies almost spoiled straight from the store, or nowhere near being ripe. The worst meat cuts I've ever seen... indiscrimitately cut from the cow? Fat and grisly. I can''t find a freaking pot roast. Or a potato larger than an egg for baking. Or a ripe tomato. Finding food is a nightmare.

That's great news that everyone is home and out of the hospital!

The "good" news is that the Internet seems to think that the normal hospital time after a C-section is "2-4 days". And considering the hospital there, maybe being at the short end is actually a blessing. It seems like the kind of place that you don't want to be any longer than you need to.

It's surprising the difference in food from first world countries to third world countries. Most of us probably never think about food quality even if we travel, but there are still places where you can't drink the water, so... I've never heard much about the PI other than stories from military guys which focused on different aspects than medical treatment and food. It looks like you're "in the city" so not a super rural location. I don't know, so I'm just curious, are there "rich neighborhoods" like there are in many/most big American cities? If there are places where the rich folks congregate away from the regular folks, would you be able to find better food there? Of course, you said that just being outside is unhealthy, so maybe getting food from farther from home brings a different set of risks that make it not worth the effort.

Good luck to you all. I hope in a short period you're all healthy and happy with this nightmare behind you.

[cabmandone]

It makes my heart hurt seeing a little one hooked up to all those tubes.

Glad everyone is home and okay.