45-70 interested.

[afterburn 549]

For those who know about these and the variation in species, I am curious about the consensus of thought here as to which might be the one?
Like a lot of stuff they can become hobbies.
In your opinion, which is the better model to choose?
As you know, there are several.
Not necessary info, but for some reason, I am partial to the Marlin Guide type.
Okidokes, if you have knowledge, information, or have owned one of these critters, do tell what you think.

[Joeaksa]

I shot a Ruger #1 in 45.70 for 20+ years. Single shot but very accurate. Love the caliber...

When you go to a range and shoot that puppy people stop, look and come over and always say "what in the world is that!?"

[Arizona_928]

I have a 1895 gbl Marlin from the 20teens that rusted in my gun safe. It sits next to mosins, carano, new Remingtons and that sob just rusted on its own. So the finishing on the new guns obviously sucks but the spoon itself is very fun.

[varmint]

There are a couple companies making a replica Springfield trapdoor in 45-70.

https://www.uberti-usa.com/cartridge-rifles/springfield-trapdoor-rifle

[speedster911]

Marlin owner- lever action.

Have owned it since the early 90's.

[John Rogers]

When I started with black powder I bought an original Rolling Block that had Badger barrel installed and it could put 5 shots touching at 300 yards. Then decided to get a 1863 Sharps and then another one and the first had a Badger barrel the other some Italian brand barrel (not Pedersoli!) but then moved into muzzle loaders and sold all 3 of the 45-70s to a fellow in Tennessee along with all the cases, reloading equipment and such.

There are several lengths of cases I.E. 45-70, 45-90, 45-100, 45-110 and I have even shot a 45-120 with full load of black powder and it was brutal! One advantage of 45-70 is you can buy a BFR chambered in 45-70 if you plan to go to AK and worry about bears, ETC.
John Rogers the oldracer

[fanaudical]

PM Jeff Higgins - I'm sure he has guidance on this one...

[Cajundaddy]

I shot a dozen rounds through a single shot, all hand loads. A similar number of factory loads through a Henry lever gun. Both worked great and I really enjoyed the Henry. Like all tools it is best to match the tool to the expected task.

[afterburn 549]

For sure, I have no specific use in mind, just like the idea to add to the squad.
For sure, I am partial to old school levers.

Arizona_928
For sure, you do know about other ways to preserve metal now?
Quite a few, actually.
I just bought a can from Brownell the other day that is touted as one of the better more EZ ways to go ,compared to old school bluing. It is marketed by them as a "coat" made by someone else.
Have not applied it yet, as an air brush of sorts is recommended and I need to soiurce one.

[KFC911]

Do they kick like a mule?

I love my Marlins (bought my .30-30 when I turned 18), but I don't even "like" to be kicked by it anymore...

I don't think I'd be interested

[afterburn 549]

IDK.
Here inith somewhere is a gold trigger Marlin 30-30. (1966 year)
I have it stripped dwn to the last screw for a restore project.
I have not used it in a few years; it never kicked too badly.
But the 45/70 ?
Might be a real different animal? !! LOL

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by KFC911

Do they kick like a mule?

I love my Marlins (bought my .30-30 when I turned 18), but I don't even "like" to be kicked by it anymore...

I don't think I'd be interested

Yes, yes they do. But then again, so does my bolt action .450.

[Porchdog]

My go-to hunting rifle is a single shot Thompson Encore. Originally with three lengths of 7mm-08 barrels, I carried it with just those for decades. .223 in the spring for groundhogs.

Since I started hunting bears I got a 45-70 barrel. It puts down bear and deer with authority (we have a combined season where I hunt). It has some kick, but certainly not the hardest I have shot. 300 H&H and 30-378 Weatherby both kick harder, as does my cousins guide gun in .444 Marlin.

I haven't gotten the "tack driving" handloads that I get with the 7mm-08, but it's plenty accurate for hunting at the distances I can see where I hunt.

Regarding lever actions - I have a couple and I like shooting them, but I'm no longer confident hunting with iron sights and I don't like a scope on a lever gun.

[osidak]

I have a Taylors & Co 1886 Take down rifle - Color Case Hardened
https://www.taylorsfirearms.com/1886-tc86-takedown-16-5-45-70-lc1-220100.html

It is a Chiappa riffle that they take and make pretty (Chiappa has polymer furniture and is blued instead of CCH)

The gun breaks down just behind the fore grip with a 90-degree twist. Also has a threaded barrel so you can suppress it.

KFC911 - if you run it suppressed (both supers and subs) the kick is very little with out the suppressor then yeah she has some kick.

500gr hand load subs though are very damn quite and in fact hearing safe in an indoor range with my DeadAir Primal on it

[id10t]

The Marlin is the only spoon rated for T Rex ....

But I think I would want a trapdoor and shoot original BP loads

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by KFC911

Do they kick like a mule?

I love my Marlins (bought my .30-30 when I turned 18), but I don't even "like" to be kicked by it anymore...

I don't think I'd be interested

If its using black powder, then the kick is much less than smokeless powder. If its using modern rounds then yes you are going to notice the kick, just depends on the load you are using.

Years ago I shot a Moisin-Nagant (Russian) and it kicked like a mule using a skimpy .30 cal round.

[Jeff Higgins]

Ah yes, the venerable .45-70. Probably the last rifle chambering I would ever be without. I have successfully hunted all manner of big game with a few different rifles so chambered, and have won some important long range black powder cartridge rifle matches with a couple of others. There remains quite a strong interest in this cartridge, and quite a good number of rifles so chambered. Here are the four I currently own and shoot:



Top to bottom, these include an original Ballard Pacific manufactured in about 1878, wearing an MVA Soule type rear target sight. This is pretty much a match rifle, weighing in at over twelve pounds, but I did take the biggest mule deer of my life with it.

Next one down is an 1875 Sharps from C. Sharps Arms in Big Timber, Montana. I used this rifle years ago to win the Oregon Territorial Long Range Championship, the Ft. Lewis 1,000 Yard Championship, and other big matches. It shares the rear sight with the Ballard (you can see the base for it).

Next one down is a Winchester Model 1886, the first repeater chambered in this round. Below that is a Marlin 1895 that I picked up some time in the '80's. These two are hunting rifles, pure and simple. They are almost identical in size and weight. I prefer the Marlin for a number of reasons, but there really is little to choose between the two. I've hunted more with the Marlin, as far east as Wyoming, as far north as Alaska. Either one would do, though.

The next photo illustrates the differences between a "hunting" load and a "match" load. On the left is a smokeless powder (H322) load topped with a bullet from an RCBS mold. It weighs about 410 grains when cast from wheelweights and features a gas check (the little copper cup) on its base to accommodate high pressure smokeless loads. We call this the "Marlin bullet", as it was specifically designed for high pressure, high velocity use from the Marlin. The crimping groove is in just the right spot to provide the correct OAL to cycle reliably. Even more important, that square shoulder, or driving band on the front of it, just above the crimp groove, precludes it being chambered in something like that old Ballard. Firing one of these would absolutely destroy that Ballard, any Trapdoor, and most other rifles from that era. We'll get back to this.

The one on the right is a long range black powder match load. The bullet is cast 20:1 lead/tin and weighs 540 grains. These will not cycle through lever guns, they are simply too long. We get about 1,150-1,200 fps out of these with straight black powder loads. We get 20,000, maybe 22,000 psi out of these.

Getting back to that Marlin load, we get upwards of 40,000 psi out of these high pressure smokeless loads. I can push that 410 grain bullet to 2,100 fps if I really want to. But, well, I don't. This is quite literally the only rifle/load combination wherein my tolerance for recoil was exceeded before the rifle's tolerance for high pressure. My loads do about 1,800 fps, which is plenty. They will shoot lengthwise through a bull moose, and I've proven that. By way of comparison, loaded with black powder this bullet might do 1,300 fps or so, which is about what factory smokeless loads (safe in Trapdoors and such) will do.



Just as an interesting side note, here are the three different length .45 caliber rifle cartridges I currently shoot. Left to right, .45-70, .45-90, and .45-100. The real names, however, are .45-2.1", .45-2.4", and .45-2.6", denoting their lengths, which is a much better way to delineate them. Interestingly, Sharps loaded both the 2.4" and 2.6" cases with 100 grains of powder, using the same OAL, just less bullet in the case when using the 2.4" case. Both were match offerings only, with the 2.6" case being the rarest of original Sharps loadings, being superseded by the 2.4" case.



So, yeah, the old .45-70. My all-time favorite rifle cartridge. Over 150 years old now. Which, due to that age and the broad variety of rifles chambered over the years, begs some caution. Modern, high pressure "Marlin" or "Ruger #1" loads will destroy old rifles. Not many chamberings have this "problem", but not many are this old, either. Just know what you have, what it can safely fire, and enjoy yourself. Not many cartridges are this versatile, or fun.

[Joeaksa]

Great post and wonderful info & photos Jeff!!

[afterburn 549]

Thanx Jeff!

[HardDrive]

Side note, I have quietly monitored the condition of Higgins's deck through gun photos through the years😁. I like idea of having a .45-70, but I just don’t have use for it, and I think it would too much of a beast to enjoy at the range.