Leveling Old Porch

[jyl]

This is the porch of the house I’m working on.

It has a noticeable slant down from house to edge. About 2 degrees. The edge of the porch is very roughly 2” lower than where the porch meets the house. I think this was done to shed rain, with a hundred years of settling as well.

It’s not an issue and walking, standing, or sitting, but cafe tables are noticeably un-level.

I am thinking about fixing this by pulling up the boards, passing them through a planer to remove a century of alligatored paint, placing shims under the joists, then reattaching the boards. Address any joist issues while I’m in there. I wouldn’t aim for perfectly level, but maybe get the slant down to 1 degree. I think the edge would still be below the bottom rail and the column base. I’d rather not have to rebuild the rail and feet.

Or, I could leave it as is. Put adjusters on the table feet. Call it “authenticity” and “character”.

If I just want to get the old paint off, I can do that with the PaintShaver, leaving the boards in place.

Whaddya think?

This probably isn’t high on my priority list, but I do want to do some work on the porch before placing the building in service. A proper top rail with a shallow counter to set coffee cups or laptops on. Etc.

[jyl]

[herr_oberst]

Jack it from underneath, install shims...?

Is the 2nd floor level?

[BK911]

If it ain't broke...
Trying to fix it will probably reveal other issues.
Shim the table!!

[gregpark]

They over sloped balconies back in the day. You only need ¼" per foot to properly drain water. Me? I'd live with it and consider it part of the charm of a bygone era. The T&G porch boards are old and brittle and you'll probably split so many tongues and grooves attempting to remove you could easily end up replacing all the decking. Cutting an inch off the back legs of furniture or blocking up the front is easier and way cheaper.

[Monkey Wrench]

Id leave the slope it will help it shed rain.
a mistake was made at some point by the tperson who laid the flooring not only does that look strange, . the end grain is exposed to the weather, that will cause it to draw water into the flooring from the expposed edges, becuase of capillary action.

a way to prevent this capillary action is to end the planks with a plank that runs parallel to the edge of the decking.

looking at the door threshold , it may be original and should slope away from the door by about 4 degrees, it is common for thresholds to be replaced by those who dont really understand how to build a threshold but the bottom of the door should be tapered as well so they fit, when the door closes, the gap closes.
new houses in general do not have a taper int eh bottom of the door and the ledge is often also level, thise are modern building techniques.

i ttakes a little doing to replace a threshold as it runs under the door frame and needs to be cut in a certain shape to be done correctly. quite often a person without knowledge of old doors will be called in to effect a reapair and rather than copying what was there they use a more modern technique.




I noted there is little or a small gap beneath this threshold, maybe the flooring was doubled up at some point.

looking up from underneath may show if there are in fact two layers of flooring, laying two layers will cause capillary action, same happens if one sisters lumber in a wet environment. capillary action defies gravity.

if you have already one layer of flooring it is a easy fix just to put another overtop and ften the person will then alternate the flooring direction as it makes sense to them from a structural point of view.


the house has been there a while , I would not expect things to shift much and yes it may be more unlevel than it began, the general rule of thumb is 1: 48, 1/4" over 3 feet. same as plumbing.

I'd exceed ot to try to keep water out from creeping into the deck , when rain hits the outer edges.

possible to jack the posts and put shims under or change the footings. if its not rotten Id wait. it looks nice.

very common issue is that a crpenter doesn't take into account water shed and builds a porch level, causing the structure to fail when capillary action causes wood to not dry out.

another common issue is failure to allow enough gap, the planks all move across the grain seasonally so they need room to move. it is likely tongue and grrove so thare is no drainage between the planks. If non T and G flooring is used then the gaps may be sufficient ot let the floor dry, wiht T and G flooring there may be gaps but you can't leave that open space that you could with solid planking.


a way to approach the issue and provide dry space is to pull up the flooring, lay new plywood and fiberglass it, then its like an upside down boat keeping water out from the framing.. Id also add "cant strips" along the house and around the support posts. they cause the fiberglass to have a little edge, protecting any water shed to the house and ledger plate area and to prevent water from the deck from rotting the posts below the deck.

obviously fiberglass trends away from the vintage appeal, I did my ( 1924) front porch like that and my back porch which was a later addition. I do like the longevity and the fact it made the space below and the structure very dry. no more painting, no more rot. less historic looking. it is a trade off. dont fibergass over old wood. it will delaminate.

I think that deck rotted and the person who restored it probebly changed the flooring direction but also tried to keep it looking original, If so It could be corrected but Id leave it if its not rotten now, might be ok for years yet.

are there two layers of flooring?

originally I bet there was an inch from the bottom of the threshold to the deck and I think that gap was filled by an additional layer of 3/4 T and G.
it prevented the need for the flooring to be completely removed.

if that outer edge of decking is exposed ot rain it will draw water in several feet and the decking will retain it. if it is decent fir it may last a while ..

if there is a second layer I'd remove the outer edge , cut it away a few inches. lay a plank parallel th the edge, leave a spall gap between. Wood won't wick so much if the endgrain is not exposed to the elements like that,, It looks more professional if one does not see that exposed endgrain from the outside edge.

if water wicks in and stays, that creates rot. if gaps are large enough they break capillary action and allow air in to dry the lumber when it does get wet. likely the unlevelness is helping to some degree, for it to try to shed water.

the issue is that capillary action defies gravity and the builder may often fail to realize that. if the gap is under about 1/16" the water will happily run uphill.

dip the corner of a paper towel in your coffee , then you can watch water run uphill, thats due to capillary action. It defies gravity. it has to do with the surface tension of water.

very important to think about how capillary action will destroy a deck when building one and most can be prevented.

it does have a roof, that shelter is obviously helping deter rot so I don't think the floor looks rotten and it may last a good while yet.

if it aint broke , don't fix it ;-)
i cannot se theroof overhang but when the wind blows the edge of the deck probably draws in water.

when the water hits the posts, it will run down the post, Id look at the framing below the deck in this area and see if maybe there is rot from water collecting as it is basically fed by the posts. there appears to be a bit near the bottom deflecting it somewhat but the posts can cause a concentration of rain water in this area by acting as a conductor basically. obviously the round posts are an important historic detail.

what commonly happens is instead of using large lumber a carpenter will sister lumber together creating a striong beam, that is common in framing a door or window header but there it is dry.

the problem wiht sistering near the edges of a porch, is it allows that small gap to retain water that is drawn in by capillary action.

when it cannot dry easily, rot takes hold. I cant see below the deck but Id look sot see if any lumber is sistered together that may have been added in an atempt at restoration in the past.

great big fir beams are more expensive today than they once were.. To save money you can sister modern lumber sizes. it's not uncommon to see pressure treated lumber sistered.

[Zeke]

What does code say about live load? Any conversions I have been involved with required sistering. Your permit requirement may vary. First the local FD has to determine max occupancy. It could be that you are at 30-40 lbs. sq ft now and don't need a surcharge. OTOH, I have seen requirements of a raised floor go to 100 #sf. This happened in the former living room of a house converted which was to become the main dining room. Probably 8 tables of 4. That weight plus staff running around can be a pretty good load.

You know why you see candles on every table? You have to have one luminaire per table that serves only that table. Many times it's a pendant fixture. Been awhile so I wonder if candles are even allowed. Funny, I haven't seen any that I remember for a long time. They used to qualify as required lighting. Worked well when free standing tables were rearranged for a large party.

I was just now reading UBC codes and they have changed. I'd hate to start contracting again now. All I have is questions any more. Seems like I don't know anything.

[A930Rocket]

Sounds like it was built right and I noticed the boards are running the correct direction, to shed water.

The slight change isn’t worth the work IMHO.

What about using a walk behind flooring sander to help make it look a little smoother/flatter? Maybe not worth the effort either.

[Bill Douglas]

It's got great character, and looks like it was originally built to a high quality. I think leave it exactly as it is.

If there are going to be a lot of people on it you could run an extra joist or two underneath.

[Reg]

The perpendicular board placed along the front to hide end grain is good for appearance but all run off will stop at meeting point and rot it anyways. I’d think you’d know that even more in B.C.??

[jyl]

Dang, is there anything you guys don’t know? Ask a question, get great information, love it.

I’ll crawl under the porch and see if I can tell what’s up. I will need to clear a path. The seller squirrelled away every piece of lumber, length of pipe, scrap of flashing, etc down there. I hauled out 200# of steel pipe and got it taken for scrap. Threw out lots of PVC pipe, duct material, old bed frames. I have almost made room to get in there. Old hoarding coot. I also denailed the better studs I pulled out of the walls and put them under the porch. Oops.

I eventually want to figure out some way to “winterize” the porch for the rainy season. Could be as simple as thick clear vinyl curtains or as nice as insulated panels and windows that somehow bolt on and unbolt off. I figure there’s seating for 15 on that porch.

[look 171]

Wow, nice old building. I am with other here, leave it and keep the old charm. If you are concern about old paint, maybe paint stripper one day when you have nothing to do? I have used a deck paint that goes on thick with anti-slip materials mixed in. Good stuff and I only use it on the decks of my rentals.

[jyl]

I’ll use the PaintShaver. Because I hate my back!

[sc_rufctr]

That looks like a huge slippery slope!

Make sure it's well painted and maintained but otherwise leave it as is.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

I’ll use the PaintShaver. Because I hate my back!

I remember you buying that for your house. That's is tough on your back and knees.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Reg

The perpendicular board placed along the front to hide end grain is good for appearance but all run off will stop at meeting point and rot it anyways. I’d think you’d know that even more in B.C.??

Suppose I wrapped strips of zinc or copper sheet over the exposed ends, but only one 90 bend so the bottom is open to drain?

[911 Rod]

Maybe an outdoor rug?

[gregpark]

Originally Posted by jyl

Suppose I wrapped strips of zinc or copper sheet over the exposed ends, but only one 90 bend so the bottom is open to drain?

Don't do that, you'll trap moisture. You could caulk it down but that wood has gotta breath

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Zeke

What does code say about live load? Any conversions I have been involved with required sistering. Your permit requirement may vary. First the local FD has to determine max occupancy. It could be that you are at 30-40 lbs. sq ft now and don't need a surcharge. OTOH, I have seen requirements of a raised floor go to 100 #sf. This happened in the former living room of a house converted which was to become the main dining room. Probably 8 tables of 4. That weight plus staff running around can be a pretty good load.

You know why you see candles on every table? You have to have one luminaire per table that serves only that table. Many times it's a pendant fixture. Been awhile so I wonder if candles are even allowed. Funny, I haven't seen any that I remember for a long time. They used to qualify as required lighting. Worked well when free standing tables were rearranged for a large party.

I was just now reading UBC codes and they have changed. I'd hate to start contracting again now. All I have is questions any more. Seems like I don't know anything.

Depends if they see it as fixed seating, lobby, etc. I'll cross that bridge if they make me cross it.

[look 171]

I wouldn't worry about the joints. Its been that way for a looooong time. If it does rot out, deal with it then. If you are concern about live load and such, add a girder, couple post on a pier. If its flat and not on a hill, I would just dig out a 4" depression and leave the pier there. it will be a thousand times stronger what you have there now. Worry about it later, it should be fine.