I wonder if tying together the front struts might cut down on some of the intrusion. Not night and day, but even a couple percent less could make a difference.

Hey, a new marketing angle...

So were they SRDs? The stock seats seem that they would allow a fair amount of side-to-side in an impact, and facotry sport seats are too narrow in the shoulder area for me.

they are just called " sports seats "

Considering that 40 to 45 mph down to zero is frequently fatal, I'd say the car did quite well. Those are the types of speeds at which basal skull fractures become a problem. When the car can't dissipate the energy, the driver bears the brunt of the sudden deceleration. The human body was not designed to endure those kinds of g forces.

From the displacement of the front end, I would think the car absorbed considerable energy. That's not bad for the age of some of our cars.

I do wonder how a roll cage would affect the crash performance.

I like the Churchill quote better. Tyson, I understand the initial charm of the Libertarian platform, but two things: Libertarianism is almost the exact opposite of compassion, sort of a super-conservatism. Also, Benjamin Franklin would punch Libertarians in the nose if he were alive today. Same with Abraham Lincoln. No way would he be a Republican.

911's have LOTS of crush zone compared to a normal car since the engine isn't in the way. 45 or 50 doesn't sound that bad until you realize from what it looked like he went from 45-0 almost within the lengt of the car (unstopable force meets imovable object). A few weeks after sam had his wreck my little brother had a nasty accident where he went from aproximently 15 mph to -15 mph, a full 15 mph less acceleration than sam and it ripped his car apart (90 mazda 626). After looking at sams wreck and my little brothers I'm not worried that my 911 is going to kill me if I'm reasonable about saftey.(belts, seats, reasonable driving etc.) Porsche has always had a good saftey record consitering some of the drivers. drive safe,sober and wear your belts. It counts for alot.

Lincoln would be a Republican. Don't forget that he was a lawyer and helped the railroads out tremendously. I think he really put capitalism into the capital.

You gotta be kiddin'. Here's a quote from Mr. Lincoln:

"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason. If a man tells you he loves America yet hates labor, he is a liar. If a men tells you he trusts America yet fears labor, he is a fool. There is no America without labor, and to fleece the one is to rob the other."

Now, I'll warn you, that if you are going to suggest that the Republican party is somehow friendly or even tolerant of Labor, then be aware I am a labor relations professional, and have been watching that party's legislative and congressional agenda regarding labor for the last forteen years or so.

Oh, and I think 911's do pretty well in crashes. Have you ever lifted a USA 911 door off its hinges?

Politics, great :rolleyes:

The 911 has a great crumple zone since there is no engine in the front to get shoved back into the passengers.

Actually a rollcage with a door bar (not a roll bar which is just behind the seats) may have helped some since it generally will attach on the forward sill.

Sam, My dad has a good friend back in England that got diagnosed with terminal cancer about 3 years ago. When he was told he had it they gave him a few months to live. Now this would sound like a sad story but this guy has become my hero. He lives life everyday like there is no tomorrow. He cashed in his pension (won't need it) and bought a lotus esprit twin turbo. He drives it like he stole it and enjoys himself with it. My dad told him he is nuts for going so fast but he only says "they can take my license but I'm still gonna drive, and if it kills me it will hurt less than the cancer" Hopefully he doesn't endanger others but thats how we should all live, life doesn't have a rehersal this is the real thing. Enjoy it.

Being in automotive safety electronics business, I have asked our local crash worthiness expert to share some thoughts on this.

First, he believes the car held up pretty well for a 45 MPH hit, though it appears it wasn't a 45MPH hit and it was probably more like 30 and keep in mind it was an angle impact. No major passenger compartment intrusion. Which is the main factor for Sams injuries. Thanks for wearing your seatbelt Sam.

Though the 911 has a large crush zone, it has very little crush material. The engine in front actually acts as energy absorbing material in frontal crashes. A rear engine vehicle at higher speeds can result in a forward moving engine with possible severe injuries to the occupants.

He also noted that at this particular moment in Porsche's design evolution, Porsche was very interested in vehicle safety and in fact contracted the design of safety systems for other vehicle manufactures.

An aftermarket roll bar in the instance of a frontal impact of this speed would probably make no difference since adequate passenger compartment survival space was provided by the existing structure.

Also, Lothar is correct in that 40 to 45 MPH is generally fatal in the case of a frontal rigid barrier impact. Again, Sams impact appears to be a lower speed, angle impact into a rigid barrier. The angle of the impact probably caused the severe hip damage.

Thanks to Dave. Hope this helps, if any feedback or questions I'll ask our expert to chime back in.

well I just hate to tell experts that they don't know what there talking about ...but this is not the first time I've been in an over 40 MPH crash, and back in 86 I was hit head on by a drunk my speed was 45 MPH the estimated speed of the other vehicle at impact was about 15 MPH, I didn't get to walk away from that one either. so tell me just how did your expert came up with thirty MPH ?

Well, I guess I'll just drive like a bat outta hell and when I die, I'll die fast and happy!! Now I just need to get me a supercharger. She's just not fast enough yet.

Now for the politics, most people don't have a clue what they stand for until they're swayed by a spinmeister into believing a lie.

"I took the initiative in creating the Internet."
Al Gore

He wasn't old enough to wipe when the DOD came up with it.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :>) My tagline always gets comments.

Interesting, both the crash topic and the politics. :)
On roll cages in street driven cars, the thing that concerns me when I think about it is a head without helmet to steel bar impact. I suppose the cage could be designed such that with the driver sufficiently held in a good seat with a harness the head could not contact the roll cage, but I don't know.

I think that the proper roll bar system for a street driven car would be the kind that has no forward bars. The kind that is a loop behind the front seats, with bracing to the rear deck. Perhaps even a side impact bar, and maybe even a knee thing, but certainly lacking the forehead bar across the upper front edge of the cabin.

Funny thing about that Internet inventor guy. I have to admit I was not overjoyed with the opportunity to cast a vote for the guy. But then, hypothetically, it might be possible to pit a liar against an oil industry imbecile, where the liar gets the most votes, but the imbecile takes office. When I take a step back, it seems clear to me why the rest of the world views us with alternating feelings of amusement and fright. Right now, the amusement part is what I choose to notice.

Superman - Interesting! I always read your posts and find your take on things at least intriuging. Democrats for Labor = As far as comparing Abaraham Lincoln and Ben Franklin to anything - I am not sure that's even remotely possible. We may as well live on mars compared to the world they lived in. Bush vs Gore - I thinks that's a topic for a whole nother thread - At least Bush showed some leadership and said this is what we are going to do in Iraq - and we don't need everybody's blessing before we do it. He'll take the heat for it - but he knew that going in.

I am always intrigued when finidng out different occupations of Porsche folks - The Crash worthiness of the 911 - particulary in Sams case is sobering. I am sure the intrusion had more to do with the angle of the crash - it looks like he hit the rock right at the driver's wheel/door seam. If he would have hit head on he may have fared better - but who knows. Glad you are doing better Sam!

My Porsche accident experience fared much better - though same result for the car - I was hit from behind by a crown victoria yellow cab. From the police measurement of the skid marks it was determined he was going between 40-45mph when he tagged my rear. When I saw him in my rear view mirror I let off on the brake and he pushed me about 20 feet into the intersection. My bell was rung - but no long lasting injuries - and both doors still opened.

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/at...&postid=647764

http://www.tamparacing.com/forums/at...&postid=647739

hmmmm

http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggins/

but I voted for Nader, myself.

Sam...I know this sounds cheesy...but, I think of those pictures every time the old "I hate wearing my seatbelt" pops into my head...it did it again on my 30 minute drive today...but those shots will either make you buckle up, or your name is Jesus on your drivers license...

I just hope I never have to say "thank you" for those pictures...

Glad to hear your doing better...LOVE the new 911...mine is a similiar color...

Kevin

Sam, I wasn't there obviously, but perhaps during your accident you disappated some speed as you scraped along the canyon wall until you hit the outcropping. Maybe that's how the the safety guy said you were going 30 when you hit the canyon wall.

As for lying about the creation of the internet... I would take that one over certain statements about WMD and the quagmire in Iraq.

Yes and No. Many extreme conservatives abhor Libertarianisim because it advocates free drug use and other "freedom" issues that are typically "left wing" ideals.

Libertarians believe that government should not intrude on personal rights, decisions, or financial matters. It is basically - do what you want - as long as it doesn't impinge on my personal rights. IE: If you want to smoke crack - great, but don't make me pay for your rehab if you are addicted.

Libertarians do believe government should be involved in firefighting, police protection, national defense, road systems, etc.

The don't beleive in welfare, retirement benefits, insurance, health care, etc.

"certain statements about WMD..."

After all the tap dancing with the UN did anyone actually expect to find any WMD in Iraq? Those things were transported out of the country long before we went in. They would have been if I was running Iraq. Why would we think Saddam wasn't smart enough to do the same? Perhaps when we go into Syria we'll do it without announcing it to the world a month or two in advance.

Oh, BTW I had an incident with my 911 as well and was pleased with the structural integrity of the 911. Well, except for the flimsy shock towers.