drooling over the Elise?

cantdrv55 · 10-20-2003, 09:05 PM

I've read a couple of posts here and at the other P-car site about how great the new Lotus is gonna be. It's light and has great power but I think it's dang ugly. No wait, it's FUGLY. So it's quick and agile and will stand out in a crowd but it looks too gimmicky to me. I know that soon we'll see some on the streets but what I'd rather see are more lightweight RGruppe P-cars. Those of you considering an Elise, don't jump ship. Restore an early 911 instead!

dd74 · 10-20-2003, 11:27 PM

Yeah, well if I'm going to spend $60K for a kick in the crotch, I better get a kiss on the lips afterward.

At an L.A. auto show two years ago, I was invited "behind the ropes" to sit inside an Elise. Very nice, very austere, very functional. Soooo...who's to say you couldn't get the same by stripping out a 911? I think one could. As far as the Elise being faster, handle better, etc., that's great, if the driver has the skill to make it do all those things.

Another car worth stripping out and making light - for a lot less than an Elise, is a Miata. Not quite an Elise, but I've seen Euro car magazines who test the Miata and MR2 as able to more than hold their own to the Elise.

UK Carrera · 10-20-2003, 11:32 PM

Hi All

Recently sold my Lotus Elise Sport 160 and fulfilled a lifelong dream by buying an 88 911 Carrera Sport Coupe.

I feel really privileged to have owned and enjoyed the Elise, but am delighted with my 911. I feel I could keep the 911 for ever, but never really felt that about the Elise.

The Elise is a fantastic drivers car - so absolutely alive in its feel and responses, and probably faster than the 911 despite giving away 70hp or so. It was an absolute rush to drive, but conversely one of those cars you just drive for that 'hit'.

It's funny but I actually feel more confident pushing the 911 than the Elise - the Elise always felt a little bit nervous to me.

BTW it was an S1 Elise, not the pig ugly S2 referred to above! All IMHO of course!

Luke Hudson · 10-21-2003, 12:08 AM

Maybe Elise's are a lot more expensive in the US but over here they are priced 5-10k less than a Boxster. And about half the price of a new 911.

They're aimed at the emerging "track day enthusiast" market in the UK and not the luxury sports market of the Boxster or 911, different horses for different courses.

I've driven a Series 2 Elise and its handling is quite amazing, verging on the sublime! The car is so light and precise it really is amazing fun to drive. Ok it doesn't have the grunt of a GT3 but its costs 4 times less!

Lotus are trying to pick off where the MGB left off, a cheap fun sports car for the masses. Porsche are not.

Yes a stripped out 9911, 964 or 993 will tear it apart, but only Porsche enthusiasts (like us) would consider than an option. Most "normal" drivers , if there is such a thing, want brand new cars, that come with a warranty and look new. If you can find a new Porsche in the UK for 26k (which is the most expesive list price Elise in the UK) I'll buy one!

That said yes the series 2 is ugly and I'll take my 31 year old 911's reliability over a Lotus' any day!

thrown_hammer · 10-21-2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

pompous idiots who don't have a clue what the CABC on the Lotus emblem means

OMG! Ed I just realized I am an IDIOT!!!

89911 · 10-21-2003, 05:12 AM

Before receiving the accolades that are being thrown upon it, shouldn't a car have a little history and a "track record" before comparisons to a car that has been around for 40 years. I'm all for a lightweight, no frills, enthusiast car. I'd also like to know about engine longetivity, maintenance records, and overall durability before throwing the crown over. Judging from prior Lotus's products, that has yet to be decided.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

http://www.elises.co.uk/models/index.html

For those that have NOT seen an Elise and the derivatives....

masraum · 10-21-2003, 07:08 AM

The lotus is a very cool car from a design and performance standpoint, but it is horribly ugly.

It seems that everything that I have heard of the elise puts it at well under 2000lbs, it's not that easy to get a 911 under 2000 lbs is it? And as for the miata, I will be selling my 911 soon (temporarily for financial reasons), and in the years time that I don't have a 911 I will probably be driving a miata. I've done some research, stock, depending upon the year they start at anywhere between 2200 and 2400 lbs, and they are running around 130 hp. I think it will be fun in the meantime, but it doesn't sound like competition for an Elise unless you drop some weight and install one of the turbo or supercharger kits.

cowtown · 10-21-2003, 07:18 AM

I'd trade either my '75 Turbo (2300lbs) or my '88 for a new Elise. PM me if you're interested.

I was driving at the Nurburgring, and there were many Elises there. I saw with my own eyes what they can do.

milehi914 · 10-21-2003, 07:37 AM

I agree that the redesign is not attractive in the slightest. But is it correct that the 190hp car coming to the states will hit the 1/4 in 11 seconds? If it is true, that is amazing for a car that is reported to handle the corners with the best of them. I'm looking forward to seeming them at the local autocross and track events. I'm just glad they won't be in my class because the miatas create enough trouble for me as it is. Final opinion to be determined...

Chris in Denver

John Brandt · 10-21-2003, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 89911
.... I'd also like to know about engine longetivity, maintenance records, and overall durability before throwing the crown over. Judging from prior Lotus's products, that has yet to be decided.

It's a Toyota engine out of the Celica GT. I don't think I'll worry about it WHEN I get an Elise.

As far as the rest of the car, well there's scant little to break. Reliabilty is not going to pose a problem for this car.

I've got to agree about the S2 design thiough. I'll retrofit to the old nose style if possible. Wonder if they'll make one for me in MacLaren orange?

plain fan · 10-21-2003, 07:51 AM

I thought I read the the US version would have A/C and a radio??
I respect the company for making something that says "Screw your posh, 0-db interior ride; posers and yuppies need not apply."

I've always wondered how light a person could make a 996. Someone needs to try it.

dd74 · 10-21-2003, 07:55 AM

Considering what mark-up will be, especially in L.A. where anything new is trendy and there are those with the "means" to buy new stuff, I'd bet $60K is the price. Minis here were going for $30K until we completely overdosed on them.

I'll take nothing away from the Elise, however. When I spoke to the head engineer at Lotus three years ago, he was hush-hush about the engine, though at the time, he stated the K-variant that comes in the ROW model was more than adequate, though other sources say there's cylinder head trouble with those engines. I don't know. The To-yo engine seems like a good bet. 190 reliable hp.

Daily driving this thing shouldn't be too hard when considering those who drive gutted P-cars are probably used to (and enjoy) a lack of anemities.

Traditionally, resale value for Lotus' have been horrible. The only Lotus car anyone seems to want is the Elan. I've seen the Lotus supercar, whose name slips my mind, sell for $10K. I don't know if the Elise with a Toyota motor will fair that well.

I only mention resale because who knows how long anyone can actually stand the no-frills attitude (and attitude in general) of a car like it in rush-hour traffic. For most, it's not a daily driver, really. So that's asking a lot of the money spent and a lot of the money one will ask for it when they eventually sell the car.

Personally, I'd wait three to five years, and buy one used. Lotus will increase production probably, because other companies will follow suit with stripped-out four and six cylinder high performance "little" cars. Patience is a virtue with this one, I believe.

dd74 · 10-21-2003, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by plain fan
I've always wondered how light a person could make a 996. Someone needs to try it.

I think at that point one may as well sell the 996 and work on an SC or earlier car. A stripped-out 996 is still a porker compared to a stripped out mid-year Porsche, Carreras not withstanding (they're fairly heavy in and of themselves).

plain fan · 10-21-2003, 08:08 AM

I've been wondering about that. The bumper covers are plastic, the sheet metal is paper thin, etc where would one even begin?

Deeks · 10-21-2003, 08:12 AM

The Elise has many virtues and has been developed following many philosophies that I readily agree with (lightweight, minimalist, direct handling little sports cars). Value/Fun/Performance for your money they're great.

However, having spent many hours in Elises belonging to friends of mine, I have three reasons why I could never live with an Elise in my driveway. IMO three very important things:

1. The Engine. Yes it does the job (as the performance figures clearly state), but to me the engine is the heart and soul of a car. The Elise has a thoroughly uncharismatic 1.8 Rover engine which sounds like a lawnmower (Although I think in the States it looks like you'll get the variable valve, peaky toyota lump which should spruce things up significantly).

2. The looks. I couldn't live with the fussy 'look at me' lines.

3. Flimsy build quality.

Classic 911 lines, a free breathing, screaming flat six and high quality German racebred engineering. There is no substitute.

Deeks · 10-21-2003, 08:15 AM

Quote:

I've seen the Lotus supercar, whose name slips my mind, sell for $10K

you probably mean the Esprit Turbo.....?

roGERK · 10-21-2003, 08:42 AM

I'm already on the record as saying this, but its perhaps worth repeating:

My next car will be an Elise.

Its lightweight, I love the looks, and a couple of drives in friend's cars have me totally hooked. Its that rarest of all cars - a proper no frills sportscar with no electric windows, no cup holders, and no carpets.

Alongside it the Boxster looks and feels desperately heavy and looks dated.

I just wish the Elise had been designed and built (esp built) by Porsche, but instead, Porsche entered the SUV market instead. There can be no more telling example of how a once great (unique) company has completely lost its way...

Will I sell the 911? I doubt it - but if someone said "You can keep the Porsche or swap it for this Elise" then I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Regarding Lotus resale values - the Elise is a glorious exception to the rule. Here in the UK practically everyone wants one, so the resale values are high and firm.

Sigh - I just hate to abandon Porsche, my 1st love, but todays 911 and Boxster are just too heavy, too complex, too expensive, and too bland to ever interest me.

Its a real shame.

- roGER

billwagnon · 10-21-2003, 09:16 AM

so what does CABC stand for?

cowtown · 10-21-2003, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by BillyPilgrim
Toyota engine. Alright, that’s the last straw. I know this will help the reliability issues, but if I could stomach buying a Japanese engine I would go out and buy a TT Supra, TT 300ZX or NSX. European cars have European engines. Forget it, I’ll stick to Porsches…

Just curious - what is it you object to about the Japanese engines? Complexity?

I can understand if complexity is the reason, but it seems to me that Honda, Subaru, and Toyota are building the best auromotive engines in the world these days.