Public Stoning

[SteveStromberg]

That guy in Florida should be put in the town square and the citzens could line up and Throw stones at him. Steve

[on-ramp]

let the poor little girl's relatives have at him first.

they have the death penalty in Florida, you know. too bad it's quick.

I say TORTURE the bastard.

this sort of thing doesnt happen over seas, only here in America , where liberal appointed judges and incompetant laws/lawyers keep these criminals on the streets to harm our kids.
this career criminal should've been behind bars a long time ago.

[Overpaid Slacker]

On-Ramp -- If you want to be disgusted, check out Bork's new book: Coercing Virtue: The Worldwide Rule of Judges.
The title is misleading, it's not that judges coerce virtue so much as dictate an ideology of "lifestyle socialism" from the bench, wthout regard for the written laws.

An excerpt from Schafly's review:
The courts are dominated by what Bork calls faux intellectuals of the left who, unable to persuade the people or the legislatures, "avoid the verdict of the ballot box" by engaging in "politics masquerading as law." We are "increasingly governed not by law or elected representatives, but by unelected, unrepresentative, unaccountable committees of lawyers applying no law other than that of their own will."

Americans generally believe that bloodless revolutions come only dressed in military garb, but Bork details how the United States has suffered a "coup d'etat" from the men and women in black robes who have changed us "from the rule of law to the rule of judges." He agrees with U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia that the high court "is busy designing a Constitution for a country I do not recognize."

Bork shows how "virulent judicial activism" has overturned constitutional law in many areas. For example, "the suffocating vulgarity of popular culture is in large measure the work of the Court," because it repeatedly defeated the people's attempts to contain and minimize it.

I think Bork goes a bit too far with "suffocating vulgarity" but his point is spot on. Knowing they can't win in the legislatures, libs have co-opted the judiciary -- where the rubber meets the road, so to speak.

Also, I disagree that these things only happen here and that only we've got a hijacked judicial system. Opinion polls of many European countries show moderate to strong majority support of the death penalty by the public (as in 50 to 70%) but their governments, the self-appointed stewards of all morality, keep the topic off any public referendum. Hell, the EUrocrats didn't want either joining the EU or accepting a European constitution to be put to a vote of the citizens of each country -- just rubber stamped by their legislatures.

Our system isn't perfect (as people from both sides of the aisle here will agree) but it's the best thing going.

Didn't mean to hijack Steve's thread. Stone this particular bastard and then let the crows at him.

JP

[SteveStromberg]

I will have to get his book. Steve

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Stoning's too good for him.

I have a few choice ideas for this guy's punishment, and none of them involve a quick death.

[tabs]

I generally am against the Death Penalty. I think ole Charlie Manson would be an exception to the rule though.

Several states including CA are now incarcerating Sexual Predatators after their terms are served recognizing the threat that they pose. This is a touchy issue, that goes to the heart of our civil liberties. However in times past these criminals would never have gotten a second chanch. So I fall on the side of caution and say these guys should never be let out, let them roam the back ranges of some state institution medicated on thorzene.

The case of the girl in Florida and the gal in SD, where predators were recently released to commit further mayhem are just tragedys.

[Overpaid Slacker]

tabs, you and I agree on a lot of fronts, but here's where we part company. If you're convicted of a serious enough crime (esp. given the advantages criminal defendants have in the US) then you forfeit a number of civil liberties, for the benefit of the rest of us.

To me, it's like treating the war on terror as another law enforcement/procsecution matter. To quote James Taranto (WSJ's Opinion Journal Best of the Web Editor):
Extending to the enemies of civilization the full panoply of due-process protections criminal defendants enjoy--the presumption of innocence, protection from self-incrimination, the right to a lawyer, and so on--makes it harder to gather intelligence and prevent future attacks. Three thousand people died on Sept. 11, but at least Mohamed Atta's civil liberties were never violated. Don't you wish they had been?"

I don't buy the slippery slope argument in this context (although I think it's got merit in the judicial activism realm I referred to above). These events are tragedies, more so b/c you and I could've prevented them by taking back our own judicial system to prevent it. In addition to profoundly saddened, I'm ashamed that our system produces these results.

JP

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by SteveStromberg
That guy in Florida should be put in the town square and the citzens could line up and Throw stones at him. Steve

Vlad the impaler had an interesting technique...

[MrPants]

happens every day. it's always horrible.
what offends me is the lack of outrage UNLESS cnn runs footage every hour for a few days. shes just the flavor of the week.
if anyone can remember this girl's name in 8 weeks i'd be surprised. and THAT is a tragedy.

[Aurel]

Public stoning is an Islamic practice. I say public baseball batting would be more appropriate in the Land of the free. However, Saddam had a human shredder that must be rusting now...

Aurel

[Sonic dB]

Well....innocent until proven guilty is a nice concept...but this A-hole has 13 prior arrests.

Chances are that he is the killer/rapist.

So...with that in mind... what is the punishment? Death? Castration? both?

I dunno. I really feel badly for the girls family. That picture of him grabbing her arm was so disturbing to see.

And to think that the guy has a 13 year old daughter of his own... what must she be thinking?

[dd74]

The suspect actually has three kids, all daughters I believe.

The unfortunate ills of the death penalty range from state-to-state. In Florida, where this murder took place, it will take 12 yrs. for him to be executed. 12 yrs. of incarceration leading up to a date with the needle is punishment in itself since he will have no freedom and a very finite outcome to his life. The problem that I see with the death penalty is the millions in legal fees that will be utilized to finally engage the execution, and of course the time taken as the suspect waits on death row.

I have no problem with the death penalty. I have issues with the legalities that have wormed themselves into the system. Bork's book, on that account, makes much sense.

As for the suspect's prior record and release, it has been suggested that GPS-type chips be inserted into these criminals upon their release, but of course our liberal-minded justice system has ruled that as being too invasive and a violation of Constitutional rights.

You know, if you look at that tape, you can see that the girl had no chance of escape. She was stalked as brazenly as a lion stalks an antelope. Should I feel appalled of the thought that possibly she should have been armed? I don't now considering the circumstances. In cases like this, I don't say, "Look at the world we live in." I say, "Look at the world our justice system has allowed us to live in."

[Aurel]

These days, it seems easier to rape and kill an 11 year girl than to do 100 mph on the parkway...go figure

Aurel

[Overpaid Slacker]

I say, "Look at the world our justice system has allowed us to live in."

Amen, brother. Now, let us look at the justices themselves. Relativism kills, period.

JP

[tabs]

If U read what I have to say, I am in favor of keeping these predators in custody after their sentence is up. So that the guy who killed the 11 year old would never have been back on the street to commit another crime.

A British Excutioneer after he retired came out against the death penalty, he said that it did no good, in that it didn't act as a deterent. Since this mans job was administering death to criminals I have to give pause to what he had to say. Also with the advent of DNA testing many people on Death Row are being proven innocent...this shows that the system is greatly flawed. But then again I have to ask why is Charlie still sucking valuable O2.

[MrPants]

Originally posted by dd74
"Look at the world our justice system has allowed us to live in."

that seems to be a very liberal point of view.
more control, more rules, more oversight, more government etc

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I think public execution would be a good deterrent. Nobody want to think it could be him dancing at the end of a rope.

[Overpaid Slacker]

tabs, we've chosen to have a very defendant-friendly system; and the threshhold is "beyond a reasonable doubt" -- not beyond any possible doubt. That, and the incredible procedural hurdles (MIranda, exclusion of evidence, etc.) involved in convicting someone provide as much confidence as you can get that if found guilty, someone's guilty.

When the Central Park Jogger convicts were freed a few months ago, Ann Coulter had a screed that gave the lie to the notion that "many" people are now being acquitted due to DNA evidence. Like the "flavor of the week" thing, all it takes is one or two such acquittals, publicized like the second coming of Christ by a media that is anti-Death Penalty, and it seems like a landslide.

In fact, the CPJ now-acquitees were let go by the same liberal jurism I'm talking about -- the questionable "admission" by one other person that he raped that woman actually did nothing to disprove the CPJ convicts' participation -- they, too, raped and contributed to her killing... But the outcry from a public that was told half the story, at most, was overwhelming.

Incidentally, Miranda is not the law of the land. Shortly after the Miranda decision, Congress passed legislation that means that such warnings are not required in order to introduce evidence or statements made prior to waiver of attorney -- but no court has enforced the law b/c of fear of public outcry. The cattle whose primary exposure to "the law" are cop and court shows would go ballistic. I can just imagine the Bush/Hitler Ashcroft/Goebbels fits that would occur if they started enforcing a real live law that was passed 30-odd years ago.

Ordinarily, when I post this kind of thing, I try to link to the articles/facts I'm citing -- I can't find Coulter's article right now, so you'll have to take my word for it; or not, I suppose.

If I could line up ten executioners from TX and FL that said the Death Penalty was a deterrent, would you move 9 times towards that side of the issue? One guy? c'mon. This executioner did all kinds of public polling and data research from the dawn of criminal justice systems through today and came up with this one opinion that moved you?

One of the first things we were taught in Criminal Law was that deterrence is only one element of the efficacy of punishment (the deterrence argument applies to all punishment - like incarceration, btw, not just the DP). There is also the need for the public to feel vengeance, the actual "tangible" evidence of a justice system at work, etc. I was a 1L a long time ago, and CrimLaw was never my thing, so I forgot the litany -- but suffice to say it was a litany, of which deterrence was only one part.

Damn, I am lazy this morning -- no article cites, no digging through my notes...

JP

[Aurel]

Yeah, barabaric regimes love public executions. The Taliban were well known for that. How about stoning women who cheat on their husbands and cutting the right hand of thieves too ? In public, of course. That could be done on baseball fields, charge a small fee for the entrance and sell some good beer. I also suggest emasculating rapists in public, and throwing their balls to the crowd. Yeah, how bout that, Blue ?

Aurel

[Overpaid Slacker]

Aurel -
I'm on the fence about public executions, leaning anti-. But you glide over a couple of things in your lashing at BSJ. First, to say that if a barbaric regime does it, it's necessarily bad is a false premise. Barbaric regimes enforce laws (we may not agree with the laws) so is law enforcement bad? Barbaric regimes provide a measure of security for their subjects (from foreign invaders, eg), so is protection of the populous bad?
Second, many non-barbaric regimes held public executions. The Roman Empire was not barbaric, and may have done more to spread literacy, knowledge, technology and peace than any other regime in history (OK, the Pax Romana kind, but the everyday people living under the system were relatively safe and could rely on the rule of law). Romans had an incalculable number of public executions -- Christ for one.
Ancient Judaic societies stoned criminals to death. Up until the mid (late?) 19th century the British had public executions. The list goes on.

The issue is the due process to convict in the first place -- barbaric societies are barbaric in large part b/c they lack due process and are capricious (at best) in administration of the law.

The extreme punishments you mention are elements of the Islamic law. I disagree with the severity of the punishments, certainly, but the underlying crimes are still crimes. I don't think BSJ was advocating public torture of bread thieves and adulteresses.

In crimes of sufficient depravity, though, the death penalty is an option, following due process and conviction -- and if you want to make the punishment a deterrent, hey, public execution is probably the best way.

I definitely agree that they should sell good beer at the events.

JP