What is your definition of "Devil's Advocate?"

[Zeke]

I used the term incorectly today and thought about it for awhile and realized that I really don't know what it means. To advocate what the Devil represents seems shallow. What does this mean and how is it used? Is this Shakespeare?

[cstreit]

Zeke,

My interpretation has always been that this means taking a contrarian view of the subject at hand for the purpose of contrast. IF you are playing the Devil's advocate, you may be taking the opposite view, for sake of discussion, without necessarily agreeing with the point you are making.

[tchanson]

Originally posted by Zeke
What does this mean and how is it used? Is this Shakespeare?

What Chris said, but, its also actually a real theological title used in the Catholic Church (Advocatus Diaboli to those wacky Romans) for the official who is assigned the duty of arguing against the proposed beatification (sainthood) of an individual during the formal proceedings. The intent is to insure that a case is (theoretically at least) examined from all sides before any conferring of sainthood.

Although, the Church in the last few years seems to have adopted a "fast track" system in this process, for better or worse. Seems more like the "Devil's Advisor", or perhaps the "Devil's Drinking Buddy" is the more accurate title currently...

Tim

[LeRoux Strydom]

My understanding: defending an often indefensible position (like literally defending or advocating the devil in a court of law) for the sake of allowing the other side with a morally more defensible position to strengthen its arguments and remove all doubt. Again, you don't necessarily have to agree, but simply to put the contrarian arguments within the "rules of the game".

I'll have to remember its historical origin, thanks for that, tchanson.

LeRoux

[stealthn]

The 11th beer....

[nostatic]

isn't Dick Cheney the devil's advocate?

[Jim Richards]

Those bums don't need an advocate.

[Milu]

In addition to the official role in the Catholic church. It is anyone defending a position, usualy perceived in a negative way by his peers and associates, to the best of their ability in order to demonstrate the antithesis or alternate point of view and thus stimulate debate or test the strenght of the opposing argument.

[Zeke]

Well, I may not have used it completely unappropriate after all. We were talking about construction inspections and QC. I told my friend who wants to become an inspector or owner's representitive, that he could maybe sign up one of his contactor buddies' clients. In that context, I said, "You may become the Devils' advocate." Not quite what you all said, but I got my point across.

[nostatic]

The Cast (in order of appearance.)
M= Man looking for an argument
R= Receptionist
Q= Abuser
A= Arguer (John Cleese)
C= Complainer (Eric Idle)
H= Head Hitter




M: __Ah. I'd like to have an argument, please.
R: ___Certainly sir. Have you been here before?
M: __No, I haven't, this is my first time.
R: ____I see. Well, do you want to have just one argument, or were you thinking of taking a course?
M: __Well, what is the cost?
R:___ Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten.
M: __Well, I think it would be best if I perhaps started off with just the one and then see how it goes.
R: ____Fine. Well, I'll see who's free at the moment.
Pause
R: ___Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.
Ahh yes, Try Mr. Barnard; room 12.
M: ___Thank you.

(Walks down the hall. Opens door.)

Q: __WHAT DO YOU WANT?
M: __Well, I was told outside that...
Q: __Don't give me that, you snotty-faced heap of parrot droppings!
M: __What?
Q: __Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!!
M: __Look, I CAME HERE FOR AN ARGUMENT, I'm not going to just stand...!!
Q: __OH, oh I'm sorry, but this is abuse.
M: __Oh, I see, well, that explains it.
Q: __Ah yes, you want room 12A, Just along the corridor.
M: __Oh, Thank you very much. Sorry.
Q: __Not at all.
M: __Thank You.
(Under his breath) Stupid git!!

(Walk down the corridor)
M: (Knock)
A: __Come in.
M: __Ah, Is this the right room for an argument?
A: __I told you once.
M: __No you haven't.
A: __Yes I have.
M: __When?
A: ___Just now.
M: __No you didn't.
A: __Yes I did.
M: _You didn't
A: __I did!
M: _You didn't!
A: __I'm telling you I did!
M: _You did not!!
A: __Oh, I'm sorry, just one moment. Is this a five minute argument or the full half hour?
M:_ Oh, just the five minutes.
A: __Ah, thank you. Anyway, I did.
M: _You most certainly did not.
A: __Look, let's get this thing clear; I quite definitely told you.
M: _No you did not.
A: __Yes I did.
M: __No you didn't.
A: __Yes I did.
M: __No you didn't.
A: __Yes I did.
M: __No you didn't.
A: __Yes I did.
M: _You didn't.
A: __Did.
M: _Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: __Yes it is.
M: __No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: __No it isn't.
M: _It is!
A: __It is not.
M: _Look, you just contradicted me.
A: __I did not.
M: _Oh you did!!
A: __No, no, no.
M: _You did just then.
A: __Nonsense!
M: _Oh, this is futile!
A: __No it isn't.
M: _I came here for a good argument.
A: __No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: _An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: __It can be.
M: _No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: __No it isn't.
M: _Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: __Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: _Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: __Yes it is!
M: __No it isn't!


A: __Yes it is!
M: _Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: _No it isn't.
M: _It is.
A: _Not at all.
M: _Now look.
A: (Rings bell)__Good Morning.
M: _What?
A: __That's it. Good morning.
M: __I was just getting interested.
A: __Sorry, the five minutes is up.
M: _That was never five minutes!
A: __I'm afraid it was.
M: _It wasn't.
Pause
A: __I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue anymore.
M: _What?!
A: __If you want me to go on arguing, you'll have to pay for another five minutes.
M: _Yes, but that was never five minutes, just now. Oh come on!
A: _(Hums)
M: _Look, this is ridiculous.
A: __I'm sorry, but I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid!
M: _Oh, all right.
(pays money)
A: __Thank you.
short pause
M: _Well?
A: __Well what?
M: __That wasn't really five minutes, just now.
A: ___I told you, I'm not allowed to argue unless you've paid.
M: __I just paid!
A: __No you didn't.
M: __I DID!
A: __No you didn't.
M: _Look, I don't want to argue about that.
A: _Well, you didn't pay.
M: _Aha. If I didn't pay, why are you arguing? I Got you!
A: __No you haven't.
M: _Yes I have. If you're arguing, I must have paid.
A: __Not necessarily. I could be arguing in my spare time.
M: _Oh I've had enough of this.
A: __No you haven't.
M: _Oh Shut up.

(Walks down the stairs. Opens door.)

M: _I want to complain.
C: _You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.
M: _No, I want to complain about...
C: __If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother.
M: _Oh!
C: __Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office.


(Slams door. walks down corridor, opens next door.)

M: _Hello, I want to... Ooooh!
H: __No, no, no. Hold your head like this, then go Waaah. Try it again.
M: _uuuwwhh!!
H: __Better, Better, but Waah, Waah! Put your hand there.
M: _No.
H: __Now..
M: _Waaaaah!!!
H: __Good, Good! That's it.
M: _Stop hitting me!!
H: _What?
M: _Stop hitting me!!
H: __Stop hitting you?
M: _Yes!
H: __Why did you come in here then?
M: __I wanted to complain.
H: __Oh no, that's next door. It's being-hit-on-the-head lessons in here.
M: _What a stupid concept.

[Zeke]

Jack, take notice. Budding screen writer here. Can write and play the musical score as well.

[juanbenae]

eric the half a bee for act 2 ?

[Eric Coffey]

Originally posted by Zeke
Jack, take notice. Budding screen writer here. Can write and play the musical score as well.

What, now you're telling me that you can't recognize classic Monty Python when you see it you twit? (welcome to room 12a, hehe).


Oh, and Todd, I always thought it was "toffee nosed"?

[tabs]

Being a "Devils Advocate"...wouldn't know a thing about it!