Anyone else hate new Porsche?

[MrPants]

Hate is a strong word but I find it hard to swallow post "Dr. Ferry" Porsche. The Boxster, 996, Cayenne, and there isn't the dedication to racing that there used to be.
It seems Porsche is just resting on its laurels. Porsche used to make unique, subtle, monsters, now they are moving more towards being just a regular production car company.
Its the bottom line instead of the finish line.
Any thoughts on this? Can we hope that there will be a performance revivial at AG, or is Porsche banished to '12 way adjustable seat' limbo forever?

[JavaBrewer]

I love cars, not car manufacturers. Ford vs. Chevy, BMW vs. Ferrari vs. Porsche, Japanese vs. Domestic vs. European, I couldn't give a rats a#s.

Back on thread, the only car Porsche ever made that I was interested in owning was the pre 90's 911. Actually the word "interested" is inappropriate, "obsessed" is more fitting. I also would love to have a Ferrari 512 BB, a BMW 2002, a 60's Mustang GT-350, a MBZ 300sl, the new Mini, and a WRX STi.

Walking on a Porsche sales floor today is (for me) equivalent to walking on a Nissan or Ford sales floor.

[VINMAN]

The new Porsches , including the "9" series,just dont do it for me. Not saying I would turn one down, but I'd take a 80's 930 turbo over a new one any day.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Porsche died in 1997.

The funny thing is that the same discussions and opinions seen on this subject here at pelicanparts can be seen at the German enthusiast forums as well. Heck even 996 owners complain in Germany, not just the aircooled cars' owners.

In short how I see things can be said this way: They (Porsche) could have done better. They water down the brand to make money now. So it's like peeing in your pants.....

The magic is disappearing and that's the problem.

[vash]

i like them all! well maybe not the cayenne.

[badcar]

Being new to these boards and most likely missing the hundreds of thousands of posts on why the pre-90's 911 is the end all be all of cars, I find it amazing that there is so much dislike for the newer product. I don't own a black and white TV, I let go of my super cool Artari game station, I even have a touch tone phone. I accept the new.

I love the heritage, the challenge, and the feel of the older cars. I still love my MG. But I love to utilize what limited driving skills I have developed and apply them to the newer cars available. I sure being a Boxster owner, I know I have some people that don't respect that car and believe it is not a true Porsche and I will hear about it... But I love the car...as much as I loved my

68 Firebird 400
69 Mustang
71 Midget
72 MGB.....etc....

[djmcmath]

Whenever I see a complaint, I always like to ask two questions. First, is it valid? Does it make sense? Is it fair, logical, just, etc.? Second, given that the answer to #1 was "yes," what can I do about it? Generally, I've found this makes a lot of useless complaining go away, and points me towards generally more constructive criticism.

So ... Is this valid? I'd like to think it is. When I was a small boy, formulating my opinions about what my dream car was, Porsche was winning at the track. I was raised in the philosophy that Porsches are track cars, race cars, and supreme winners. Today, that is different. After 50 years of producing racing cars, the breed is definitely watering down. The factory no longer fields a team. That said, of course, the new GT3 is quite a car, and the 25 that will be built are already all spoken for. Modern technology is really quite fantastic. I still love the newer cars for their engineering.

Part 2 -- what would I like to see from Porsche? What would _you_ like to see from Porsche? Classic roadsters? A return to the purists and the track of legend? I honestly don't have a problem with them building SUVs, as long as they also build serious track cars, cars that are ultimately and supremely fun to drive. Therefore, what can we do about this problem? Perhaps we could write letters to the nice gentlemen at PAG? Perhaps a letter signed by a bunch of people?

I continue to agree with the posters who argue for older classic Porsches and the older classic philosophies, but I tire of the endless whining, and seek instead for a solution.


Dan

[pwd72s]

Originally posted by djmcmath


I continue to agree with the posters who argue for older classic Porsches and the older classic philosophies, but I tire of the endless whining, and seek instead for a solution.


Dan

Perhaps Porsche needs to fire the coach? Won't happen as long as the beans roll in...

[GrindingGears]

Nope.

Evolve or die.

[Z-man]

Originally posted by GrindingGears
Nope.

Evolve or die.

Absolutely! The Cayenne was a necessary vehicle for Porsche. The sports car market is in the tank these days, and in order to survive, Porsche needed to create a 'mass-market' car. Some may argue that the Cayenne is a 'watered down' Porsche, but it is this 'watered down' Porsche that is enabling Porsche to continue to build 996's and 986's.

Unfortunately, it seems that Porsche is no longer confident enough in their cars to feel they can enter AND WIN significant races. While private owners race and many wind up with podium finishes, it would be great to see some more involvement in racing DIRECTLY from Porsche AG.

Just my $0.42,
-Z-man.

[djmcmath]

Z-Man, I agree. It sure would be nice to see PAG run their own races. I'm not at all bothered by the Boxster or the Cayenne -- their sales provide money to further to Porsche cause. Funding from Cayenne helps further the engineering that makes these cars great. And like some others say, while you can argue about the styling, the new engineering is better than ever before. Still, I want to see Porsche racing!

[vash]

so, do you think porsche will make a mini van? that would be evolution.

[osidak]

Originally posted by Z-man
The sports car market is in the tank these days, and in order to survive, Porsche needed to create a 'mass-market' car.

Unfortunately, it seems that Porsche is no longer confident enough in their cars to feel they can enter AND WIN significant races.

Z man. The sports car market is far from being the tank. Look at all the sports cars or sporty cars coming to market. What makes it tough for Porsche to sell their sports cars is the fact that price wise they start at $50,000 and I can go buy a WRX STi that will trounce the Boxster for $20,000 less. If Porsche where to build a low cost light weight sports car I do not feel that could keep them on the lots. However management feels a cheap car dilutes the brand. A SUV or a Sedan is ok though.

Ok so now you would argue the Porsche is built better has more soul. The new cars have no more soul than my VW Jetta. There is no racing background for the 986, a N/A 996 can not be tracked with out modifying the engine. They are over weight and too big. Porsche's have had their fair share of quality issues as well. I do not think 30 years from now there will be as many 996 on the road as there are air cooled 911's on the road.

I understand people want those things, build them but also take care of the people that push the Porsche Brand further. A typical 996 driver could care less where Porsche came from or where they will be 5 years from now. Most on this board do.

Yes private race teams race and win with the 996 based cars. Great for them. They do so because the 996 is still capable enough to do so and also they are largely uncontested in their class.

Porsche doesn't have confidence in their own cars. That is the saddest statement I have ever read. If they don't have confidence why should I. Maybe they should realize their roots are in racing and improving the road cars by what they learned on the track. If they don't then the 997 or future cars will not as worthy of a track car.

As for they needed a mass market car to keep building the 986 and 996. Yes the market for a SUV is greater than a 2 door sports car. What is the market though for a vehicle that starts $55,000 and goes up to $90,000

That market is much smaller than a 2 door car priced between $25,000 and $35,000

[Z-man]

Porsche AG Press release for January sales:
Stuttgart. Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, has once again achieved strong sales growth in the North American market. In January 2004, the sports car manufacturer delivered 2,314 vehicles to customers in the USA and Canada, representing an increase of 66 per cent compared with the same month last year when 1,395 vehicles were delivered. These were the best January sales figures ever achieved in the history of the company.

The Cayenne proved itself yet again as the growth engine for Porsche. 1,446 units of the sporty off-road vehicle were delivered. In the core sports car business segment, the number of vehicles delivered fell to 868 units (minus 38 per cent). 603 units of the 911 model range were sold in January 2004 (minus 25 per cent), while sales of the Boxster model range totalled 265 roadsters, representing a decline of 55 per cent compared with the same month last year. The sports car business segment was once again given a boost by the new convertible versions of the 911 Carrera 4S and 911 Turbo.

Without the Cayenne, Porsche would be in serious financial problems.

-Z.

[DanTheCat]

So, I have a question (not meant in a disparaging way, just as a general 'then & now' way): How many of you who dislike the new porsches can afford one right now? I have to say I didn't really like the 996, but since I couldn't afford one it doesn't really matter. So far, I like what I've seen of the new 997. But I still can't afford one, so again, who cares? Probably no one at porsche.

Of course, I don't think the water cooled engines signalled the death of the 911 either. (i would do unspeakable things for a 959...)

Sure I think it's sad that porsche is slowly becoming 'just another auto manufacturer', and was very disappointed when I heard that they were jumping on the SUV bandwagon. But I think (especially compared to something hideous like an escalade) that it truly is a porsche in spirit even though most old porsche-folk avoid it like grandparents avoid the rebellious pierced and tattooed teenager at the family reunion.

On the other hand, though, you have cars like the GT3 (want one!) and the Carerra GT (ditto) that demonstrate to me that the old porsche is still in there. It's just evolved to fit the times.

In an ideal world, porsche would take the Carerra GT to LeMans and start kicking everybody's ass again.

Unfortunately, in reality porsche has not been gobbled up by some mega-corp to be paraded around as the crown jewel and allowed to be a loss-leader. (how many peopole think ferarri makes an acceptable in business terms positive cashflow?)

Ok, sorry about ranting. Hope that made sense.

Dan

[Milu]

I don't hate new Porsche, excepting GT2 & GT3 it's too bland and vapid for such a strong position. I am indifferent, which from a marketing viewpoint is much worse.

[cegerer]

Porsche died in 1972. That's was the beginning of the end. Why? They listened to the doctors and lawyers buying their cars and changed the sensible racing 901 shift pattern to something "easier to use". WTF? It's been all downhill ever since ...... I'd never buy anything newer than a 71.

[Milu]

Originally posted by cegerer
Porsche died in 1972. That's was the beginning of the end. Why? They listened to the doctors and lawyers buying their cars and changed the sensible racing 901 shift pattern to something "easier to use". WTF? It's been all downhill ever since ...... I'd never buy anything newer than a 71.

I also liked the racing pattern. I wish my g50 had it. What I don't understand is why they used it on the 924Turbo, (most underated Porsche ever?) but never even offered it as an option anywhere else as far as I'm aware of.

[DanTheCat]

I thought porsche died with the 356?