The lib's would be proud. . .
Kerry was fresh, full of attitude (and big hair) back from Vietnam.
He was quite good with his cool arguments.

Infact, he was probably at the top of his game then. ..30+ years ago. http://www.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/sleep.gif

I'm sure he will now emerge as a butterfly. . .a beautiful metamorphoses to fix all of our ills. :rolleyes: :D hahahaha

I've heard the audio of it, that guy O'Niel had some good arguments against Kerry but was also a master debate ambusher. Kerry did a piss-poor job of defending himself, he was truly the strawman incarnate.

Just to be fair, can you imagine how your boy Bush Jr. would do on that type of format, (Dick Cavet show), against a smart anti-war person like Robert Scheer? They'd have to ride to the hospital together after the show to get (Scheer's) foot surgically removed from his ass. :D

huh. (i mean that in a "hmmm"sort of way. . .not a "WTF" sort of way) :)

seems this may have been like the nixon/kenedy debate. Watching it you saw Oneil get PO'd, a bit flustered, and Kerry was cooool cucumber-man.

Then came back 3 months later and betrayed the poor suckers he left there.

Most GI's who served in Vietnam came back to the US with a different view of the War. So what? They saw that it was a pointless war that we couldn't win due to the politics involved ie "Civil war".
Kerry has stated that he will stay in Iraq to finish the job, so why do you say he will pull out?

I think all you Bushies are just afraid of change and love the status quo. Change is good
Geoff

Most GIs did not come back and lie about the war to congress or on national television or meet with the enemies government while hostilitites were still underway or attend meetings that discussed assasinating officials of their own government. Most did not provide aid and comfort to the enemy as they killed his comrades in arms. He prostitued his service in the most terrible of ways...by using it to aid those who were trying to destory this country and then by using the same period of service to paint himself as some sort of "true blue" american hero to achieve his own ends and attain elected office. At the very best, he is liar and showed total disrespect for his fellow soldiers...at worst, a liar and a traitor to the very country he purports to defend..tell the thousands of our soldiers that died that it was a "pointless war" or the millions of innocents that were slaughtered after we ran from our responsibility thanks to people like Kerry.

Proof please Fintstone. I've never heard any of that before (and I'm not going looking, I've got too much work to do today :().

pick one

From the Congressional Record, April 1971…John Kerry’s testimony to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations describes his meeting (as a private citizen) with the enemy.
Mr. KERRY. My feeling, Senator, is undoubtedly this Congress, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe that this Congress will, in fact, end the war as we would like to, which is immediately and unilaterally and, therefore, if I were to speak I would say we would set a date and the date obviously would be the earliest possible date. But I woUld like to say, in answering that, that I do not believe it is necessary to stall any longer. I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned.
I think this negates very clearly the argument of the President that we have to maintain a presence in Vietnam, to use as a negotiating block for the return of those prisoners. The setting of a date will accomplish that.

Additional testimony regarding his fellow soldiers. No wonder people used to spit on us:

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

but what does that prove? That he went to war, came back, then went to PARIS and spoke with delegations from Vietnam at peace talks.

How is that doing ANY of the things you accused him of? ie:

I'm sorry...I don't see it. Was he a traitor for attending peace talks in a neutral foreign country as a private citizen?

a. what is your source for this? (ie context)

and

b. were you there? (ie in Vietnam with Kerry)

Actually, chalk up some points to Kerry for trying to fix the situation through a pro-active meeting.

This one:

Most did not provide aid and comfort to the enemy as they killed his comrades in arms.

Nostatic
It is from the transcript as I posted, but it is also in Kerry's book...Not treasonous??? Sorta like privately meeting with Hitler in Switzerland and coming back and trying to convince your country to quit fighting WW2 and organize others to do the same. Fits my definition.
No, did not serve with Kerry in Vietnam, but certainly was spit on during that era..as most folks in uniform were. my older brother was there at the same time as Kerry though...but he served his entire tour.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081982348.jpg

Our soldiers are rapists and murderers and the enemy soldiers are "patriots"
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081983668.jpg

The transcript is at least somewhat out of context.

I don't know why you pillory Kerry for being against a war he fought in. You don't like him because he didn't like war, and felt principaled enough at the time to do something about it.

You posted a definition of patriot elsewhere - it fits people in other countries too. You don't have to be American to be patriotic.

(edit) the newspaper picture states the Vietnamese "people whose ruling passion is the love of their country" had a peace plan. Why is it unreasonable for Kerry to support a peace plan?

Well, again we'll have to agree to disagree. But I know very few people who would equate WWII with Vietnam as you are doing.

As for spitting on soldiers, that is contemptuous. However I don't know of any proof that Kerry is lying. Exagerating perhaps, but war is messed up, and people act in ways not fitting with their character.

So did Jane Fonda.



Sorry Todd, just HAD to throw that in.

yeah, I was waiting for that one :D

My boss just got back from Cambodia. Maybe I should turn her in as a Commie sympathizer...

Or she should run for president...