Well, he said that he was a "Uniter, not a divider"

[speeder]

Our President has now done the impossible, bringing the Sunni and Shiite muslims together in Iraq to battle the American occupying forces. Just for anyone who doesn't know, these two groups have been mortal enemies for ages, solidified 12 years ago when George Bush Sr. told the Shiites to rise up against Saddam and we would have their back. Of course we Welched on the deal, the Sunnis, (Saddam's people), slaughtered the Shiites, and filled mass graves w/ them.

Well, it seems that all is forgiven this week in Iraq between them, "what's done is done", and all that, , because they now have a common enemy to fight that they both hate more than each other. Us. And they are killing lots of our people, even though the war is "over", and Iraq has been liberated.

When do we get to publicly flog Rumsfeld, that lying POS, and the other "war planners"?

[on-ramp]

agreed....

the US has mastered the art of democracy in this country so well that it will now impose it in Iraq, a religious state. This just blows the mind.

btw, why aren't we at war with Saudi Arabia?...that's where the hijackers were from..... why doesn't the US go over there and flush out muslim extremists who want to blow us up?
were any hijackers from Iraq? nope....
just WMDs(allegedly), Saddam, and some oil. (country fully contained), no imminent threat...

apply same standards, go to war with North Korea, Syria, Lybia, and all the other "evil doers" on this planet...truth is, it will never happen. these nations are not as weak as Iraq was before invasion. this means a LOT higher US casualties, politically damaging for those involved..Iraq was one of the poorest nations, therefore easy to declare war upon. sad but true.

[techweenie]

"btw, why aren't we at war with Saudi Arabia?...that's where the hijackers were from...."

And that's where most of the money that props up Al-Qaeda seems to come from.

Sadly, we seem to have made a precedent of attacking in anticipation of future potential threats.

It made no sense 14 months ago when whatever Saddam was supposed to have couldn't have been delivered more than 620 miles from the launching pad. It makes no sense now.

OTOH, to be fair, the same numbskulls that told Clinton that an aspirin plant was a bioweapons facility were *still employed by the intelligence community* under Bush (and probably were there under Bush I). These clowns have played a big role in spending the lives of 700+ of our soldiers. Not to mention Iraqui citizen 'collateral damage' and 11,000 Iraquis detained without charges, trials or contact with the outside world.

[Zeke]

It's embarrasing to live in the US right now. I'd leave, but I was born here. I shouldn't have to go from my home. But, I can't believe we are who we are. Or, at least who the so called leaders are. I'm not part of any of this.

I was friends with an 83 year old man until he passed away last year. He told me all along the year before that we were going to war and that it was going to be hell. Imagine.

[Aurel]

You guys should have listened to the french...Do you still hate us, or can you see now that the opposition to the war was friendly and in your interrest (as well as in ours) ? I don`t beleive a greater coalition would have changed anything, anyways. You just don`t invade countries because you don`t like the dictator. Now, the Iraqi are getting united against the occupant. It would be the exact same thing if a foreign country was occupying the USA. Their pride has been damaged by this occupation. Pride is a very strong feeling in the arab world. So now, they are recovering some pride in kicking some ass. I was not born here, and I can see both sides of the coin.

Aurel

[WOODPIE]

Aurel,

It's done like this:

"Told you so!"

Or in the south:

"That's what I been tellin' ya!"

Any way you write it, it is a "rubbing your face in it" expression. What else should we expect from a French?

Ed

PS. Yeah, we still hate you.

[araine901]

Dont belive every thing you hear on the news or read on message boards.

Down the road when the truth gets out, you may all change your opinion .

Somtimes I just about loose my mind watching the news and knowing how jacked up it is. I can say this becuase have oppertunity to sit in a ice box of a room and utilize my TS clearance watching all of the military comunications going out and comming in. STU's FO, ROT FLASH all of it. All of it seceret or top seceret and it sure looks a lot different than what the news tells. It reminds me of that game Telephone we played in elementry school. Someone says I just ate a candy bar and after 10 or so kids it is I just ate a terd sandwich.

BTW do you realize the stock pile of WMD we are looking for could be transported in 8 gas tanker trucks. If you wanted to hide 8 tanker trucks in a place the size of Californina do you think you could hide them well enough to make it hard to find?

I have not been called to Iraq yet, several members of my unit have and some have brought pictuers back that would blow your mind. You know I have never seen a rape room on TV, I have seen photos of one. It would make your stomach turn. I have seen photos of rooms used to torture and kill inocent people. All at the hands of Sadam. I gives you a different perepctive when the Barraks my buddy was staying in they had to pull out the carpet and clean out the blood stains from where the Iraqis exicuted Kuwati soilders before GW1. Anohter buddy had to help raise a barge where they had chained all of the Kuwati officers from that camp to the barge and sank it with them still alive. He showed me the wall with all of the bullet holes where they exicuted all of the enlisted.

If an when my time comes to go, All I can say is I am glad I will get to fight this war in Bagdad and not Los Angeles.

It pains me to here fellow Americans expresing thier embarrasment to be a citizen. But I accept it beucase I belive that they have not been told the full story yet.

[cegerer]

Yeah, it's funny .... there's no outcry around here ..... no panic .... no citizens leaving the country. The only place you hear this crap is on Internet BBS's and the mainstream media (big surprise ) Meanwhile, Bush has record levels of support from the "little people" voting with their wallets and sending in their contributions for his re-election ..... $180 million and climbing!!

[CJFusco]

"btw, why aren't we at war with Saudi Arabia?..."

Because the Bushes and the Saudi princes are buddies! They go on fishing trips together every year (seriously). Never mind the fact that they kill more of their own citizens in one year than Saddam has over the last five... wait, wasn't one of the reasons for invading Iraq that Saddam was a brutal dictator that murdered his own people?!?

[350HP930]

Araine901, why do you think eavesdropping on military communications chatter is going to give you a complete picture of what is really going on in the middle east right now, especially if you are going to dismiss the input of hundreds of reporters on the ground in areas of iraq including those that our own military is too stretched out to occupy?

I don't need to tap into military communications to realize that our military does not have iraq under control and the reason for that is because A LOT of people there don't want us there. I don't need a top secret clearance to interpret the images of the dead and wounded civilians in the the US's new occupied territories.

You can also keep hoping that you were wern't being lied to about iraqi WMDs, but the facts don't appear to support your opinion. If they existed and were shipped or hidden somewhere where is the evidence for such a theory. Without that its just another 'theory' of the bush administration that is pretty weak when they can't even come up with evidence that WMDs existed in the first place even after they have had over a year to look around iraq.

And why should 'the truth' you speak of only get out down the road? Bush needs all the good news he can get so why would he keep secret anything that would make this fiasco of a war look any better than it really is?

[techweenie]

There are a few differences in the way I see things from araine901 and cegerer.

Military chatter is full of the disinformation told by captured Iraquis, who find it much more rewarding to tell their U.S. captors what they want to hear. Best estimates from the intelligence community were that Iraq was 10-12 years from having nuclear capability. And that was probably optimistic. Not to mention they'd have to find the materials. A nuclear program can't be hidden in '8 tankers'. But let's just say for the sake of argument that they did have WMDs a year and a half ago. Their SCUDs and other missles couldn't fly more than about 600 miles. So what 'immediate threat' were they to the U.S.?

Bioweapns and checmical weapons arguments are even thinner: accurately delivering those materials to a large target is such a challenge, they are nearly worthless tactically. Even a mild wind disperses them and reduces their effects.

As for the comment that 'little people' support Bush's campaign with their contributions, the opposite is true, The bulk are $2,000 contributions from the 'big people'. When you include the 'little people', Bush's approval rating is at 43%.

[on-ramp]

Originally posted by cegerer
Yeah, it's funny .... there's no outcry around here ..... no panic .... no citizens leaving the country. The only place you hear this crap is on Internet BBS's and the mainstream media (big surprise ) Meanwhile, Bush has record levels of support from the "little people" voting with their wallets and sending in their contributions for his re-election ..... $180 million and climbing!!

180 million dollars from the "little people" ? you must be delusional

all that money is coming from corporate special interest groups....it's called bribery, friend...trying to influence a political decision with money.

[350HP930]

But I am sure the neo-fascists will soon point out that it is legal bribery.

That makes it all OK.

[speeder]

$180 million in Bush campaign contributions doesn't surprise me at all. I'm surprised that it isn't a lot more. There are massively wealthy forces that have a lot to lose when a democratically elected government returns to Washington D.C.

You've got the owners of power plants that don't have to install emmission reducing devices OR pay the fines, thanks to Bush/Cheney's savaging of EPA regulations, Halliburton stock holders, the people who sell body bags to the U.S. military, rich people who support the invasion of oil-rich countries but don't want to pay their share of the cost, (it's OK, working people and their children will handle it for a generation), , let's see, ordinary folks who have bought the lie that Bush is making the world a safer place........

Pretty sad.

[araine901]

350hp930, I am sorry I didn’t know you had it all figured out. I wish we all had a good of intelligence sources as you.

I never said I had a complete picture. I merely stated that what I observe be transmitted by people who are legally accountable for their transmissions is different than what is in the news. So by combining the spoonful of information that the reporters are reporting combined with the reports that I have read, provided an enhanced bock of information for me to draw my own conclusions from.

Some reporters and news agencies only report facts that are sensational and aid ratings. If it is not controversial its not ratings worthy. I think the NY Times scandal last year has hurt the credibility of reporters being objective.

Hypothetical situation:

If you were providing physical security for 100 people in a school gymnasium and 5 of those people started acting violently and throwing stuff, have you lost control of the entire room? I don’t think so. If your a reporter looking for a scoop you would most likley say they you had in fact lost control of the room.

I can’t answer why the truth won’t get out until down the road, it could be that sometimes releasing classified information too soon can compromise operations or persons. I know your going to complain about Joe Wilson’s wife having her identity blown. My feeling on that matter is whoever released her name needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. It is inexcusable.

As far a needing as much good news as possible, It is my opinion that this president is not as concerned about making decisions for reelection as he is about doing what he feels is right. If he was truly concerned about reelection he would have waited until the UN Security Council was done taking oil bribes from Iraq and gave permission for us to invade Iraq and fight against the Iraqi “French made” Mirage jets and “Russian made” SU and MIG jets, and “German and Russian made” warfare electronics. (all of which was found there) But I guess they Security Council was not done letting the Iraqi people starve while Sadam and themselves profited.

I guess your right, WMD's never existed, He never had them. I guess we were all fooled. I guess the Iranians and the Kurds were mistaken as well. You better hope and pray your right. And the satilite images I have seen did infact show tanker trucks leaving the suspected sites before weapons inspectors got there. We cannot uses satalite imaging 24 hours a day so it makes it hard pinpoint where stuff may have been hidden. There is a lot of desert to hid stuff in like jets, mass graves tanker trucks, mobile bio labs etc.

Read a book called the “The Last Jihad” it provides some interesting insight into what is going on right now.