hostage death - what's next?

[Isabo]

Fabrizio Quatrocchi was murdered in Iraq. I don't understand what the terrorists thought they could achieve by this action.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3628977.stm
My solution would be either the Pershing option; or to respond in kind, hostages and ten for one executions. I'm sure some will say we're civilised and don't carryout that sort of action. Bloodthirsty? Yes, but it's that time of the month again and I'm out of oil of evening primrose - any one else have a pragmatic solution?

[fintstone]

We soak all our bullets in pigs blood already...LOL...and our marines are easily killing more than 10 to one. Terrorists will either get the idea or they will be exterminated. Their choice....and I really have no preference for which they choose.

[turbo6bar]

Sounds like a damn good idea to me, Isabo.

War is hell...

[Isabo]

Originally posted by fintstone
We soak all our bullets in pigs blood already...LOL...and our marines are easily killing more than 10 to one. Terrorists will either get the idea or they will be exterminated. Their choice....and I really have no preference for which they choose.

The marines may be killing ten to one but I'm talking about taking hostages and shooting ten of them. I just see this turning into another Viet Nam or worse and feel that the kindest solution to all concerned would be very strong and very hard measures.

[joeclarke]

wow, do I sense a dramatic change in posture on Iraq from the Italian contingent here?

It seems to me that that wing of this righteous assembly had previously demonstrated a much more measured approach to problem resolution than what has been contemplated within this thread...

Is the timbre of the outrage variable with the nationality of the offended party?

[techweenie]

Yet another urban legend.

No evidence Pershing ever did that, and any schoolchild knows that there weren't '42 years without a Muslim extemist attack anywhere in the world.'

How gullible are people?

Yes, when your own countrymen are killed, it fills you with rage. Imagine having your country invaded and under the control of a foreign army for a year.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by joeclarke
wow, do I sense a dramatic change in posture on Iraq from the Italian contingent here?

It seems to me that that wing of this righteous assembly had previously demonstrated a much more measured approach to problem resolution than what has been contemplated within this thread...

Is the timbre of the outrage variable with the nationality of the offended party?

Please look at older threads to establish if I have had a change of posture or merely developed it in line with events.
The nationality of the offended party? If I was cynical I might believe it was done by the CIA "pour encourager les autres". I am not cynical and I don't believe it. My nationality? I was brought up in England and live in Italy with an Italian husband, I am however, an American citizen. I think my reaction would be the same regardless of nationality.

[dhoward]

Originally posted by techweenie
Imagine having your country invaded and under the control of a foreign army for a year.

Imagine living in a country where comments like yours would be grounds for abduction and execution. Imagine having your family members dragged away, never to be heard from again. Well, at least Saddam knew how to control his subjects. For all of you humanitarians complaing about collateral damage and the death wrought by the evil US forces, where were you during his reign of genicide?
Whiners.

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by dhoward
For all of you humanitarians complaing about collateral damage and the death wrought by the evil US forces, where were you during his reign of genicide?
Whiners.

Same place they were when at least 800,000 were slaughtered in Rwanda.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Originally posted by dhoward
For all of you humanitarians complaing about collateral damage and the death wrought by the evil US forces, where were you during his reign of genicide?

Driving their SUVs, enjoying 12 MPG at $1.09 / gallon.

[Isabo]

Originally posted by techweenie
Yet another urban legend.

No evidence Pershing ever did that, and any schoolchild knows that there weren't '42 years without a Muslim extemist attack anywhere in the world.'

How gullible are people?

Whether Pershing did it or not I still think it's a good idea.

Originally posted by techweenie

Yes, when your own countrymen are killed, it fills you with rage. Imagine having your country invaded and under the control of a foreign army for a year.

I don't think my feelings have anything to do with nationality, and I can aprreciate the feelings of the invaded. However, I believe that my bloodthirsthy view is the most viable and honest way forward and ultimately will cost less loss of life on all sides.
The people I have spoken with in Italy have very mixed feelings about Quatrocchi. All are sorry that it happened, all respect the courage with which he faced death and died but many point out that he was there for the money he was paid as a freelance guard which costs him a little sympathy.
I am still waiting for alternate approaches. Bear in mind that any weakness may lead to a jihad later. I believe a lesson needs to be given that Islamic or other terrorists will not dare to attack the west again.

[techweenie]

dhoward: "Imagine living in a country where comments like yours would be grounds for abduction and execution. Imagine having your family members dragged away, never to be heard from again."

I guess you aren't aware that's exactly what the U.S. forces are doing in Iraq. Want to guess how many people are in custody without their family knowing where they are? How many summarily executed on the street?

We're not behaving a whole lot differently in Iraq than Saddam did, at least as a lot of people who live there see it. But to know that you have to be able to get news from something other than U.S. media.

[techweenie]

Isabo: "Whether Pershing did it or not I still think it's a good idea."

Making yourself out to be the enemy of a billion people's God isn't a very good way to win hearts and minds. And if you just get respect by killing and desecrating, you have to expect generations of attacks. The result is that the U.S. ultimately would become more like Israel, where you can be searched every time you go into a business, or randomly on the streets -- and still lose hundreds of innocent civilians a year to terrorists. And I think ultimately, that would be unacceptable to most Americans; probably to most Italians, as well.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
Isabo: "Whether Pershing did it or not I still think it's a good idea."
The result is that the U.S. ultimately would become more like Israel, where you can be searched every time you go into a business, or randomly on the streets -- and still lose hundreds of innocent civilians a year to terrorists. And I think ultimately, that would be unacceptable to most Americans; probably to most Italians, as well.

It is not because they do not want to. The only thing preventing this is a combination of their fear and lack of access. Certainly not because they are are our friends.

[Milu]

Has anyone seen the comedy sketch by Jenny Eclair on pmt?

A lot of similarities with Isa tonight. I'm going to see if her husband wants to go out for a beer.

[304065]

A quick read of Machiavelli would suggest that a more appropriate strategy would NOT be to inflame the entire Islamic world with such a gesture as is attributed to Pershing.

[VenezianBlau 87]

Originally posted by techweenie
Making yourself out to be the enemy of a billion people's God isn't a very good way to win hearts and minds. And if you just get respect by killing and desecrating, you have to expect generations of attacks.

That's exactly what the Islamic extremists have done. Now they can expect to be attacked for generations.

And, I agree U.S. media falls short as they are generally biased towards passivity as a virtue and view terrorism as a law enforcement problem rather than acts of war.

Bob

[techweenie]

"A quick read of Machiavelli would suggest that a more appropriate strategy would NOT be to inflame the entire Islamic world with such a gesture as is attributed to Pershing."

Boy howdy. Isolating the terrorists and identifying them as against the principles of Islam gives us a billion allies instead af a billion more enemies.

[dhoward]

Originally posted by techweenie
dhoward: "Imagine living in a country where comments like yours would be grounds for abduction and execution. Imagine having your family members dragged away, never to be heard from again."

I guess you aren't aware that's exactly what the U.S. forces are doing in Iraq. Want to guess how many people are in custody without their family knowing where they are? How many summarily executed on the street?

We're not behaving a whole lot differently in Iraq than Saddam did, at least as a lot of people who live there see it. But to know that you have to be able to get news from something other than U.S. media.

Rhetorical whining.
So YOU saw this while YOU were there?
Gimme a break.
Now, as people like me are apt to do, I'm going out to smoke a cigarette and club some baby seals with poached elephant tusks...

[Milu]

I am not sure that a quick read of Machiavelli gives us an answer, maybe JR from Dallas, or Michael Corleone or Tony Soprano perhaps

Rightly or wrongly much of the Islamic world is already inflamed. Remember some of the images of celebration immediately after 9/11? I am not sure how the west can promote the terrorists as being against Islam, it would certainly be one hell of a campaign.

Maybe this problem really goes back to the crusades.