Crap! Reorg!

[Moses]

Originally posted by tabs
...will that old sob ever give me a break?

Reminds me of a classic; "My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son of a b!tch."

[widebody911]

I got laid off twice last year. Right now I'm working @ HP. The nice thing about HP is they only do layoffs on the days that end in 'Y"

I landed my first programming job @ 15. Except for about 6 years of working for the US Forest Service and then CDF, I've been doing IT ever since then.

I don't see myself doing IT 10 years from now. Maybe not even 5. This stuff is too easy to offshore. Don't know what I'm going to do next, but I spend a little time each day thinking about it.

Even for the positions that will stay, I'm seeing companies laying off people and then re-filling the position, just getting someone cheaper. The most cruel examples I've seen are where the company hired the same person back into the same job, just for less pay. IMHO, these guys were idiots for going back, but they hadn't found anything else out there.

The overall trend - irrespective of what you're told about the 'recovery' - is immense downward pressure on white-collar wages.

[jyl]

Being under the layoff sword is really tough. My company has done multiple rounds of layoffs in the last few years and I've had my share of sleepless nights. My rule is to have many months of living expenses in the bank - a year if at all possible, even more. It sounds crazy or impossible, but here in the SF Bay Area I've known too many people who were laid off and then searched for months, even years, for work. I don't think the economy is out of the woods, certainly not down at the level of the individual worker, and I think loyalty to employees is very minimal at many companies. Take a guy who's worked at the company for 5 years and send him packing with 5 minutes' notice and three weeks' severance? I saw that done just a few weeks ago. Good luck, do a lot of networking even if you don't feel you "need to", and take every possible precaution.

[island911]

Originally posted by HarryD
Hate to tell you... but a reorg without a plan in place ... the chain saw is just being warmed up.
. . .

Oooohhhhh -ouch! THat is so brutally true.

Originally posted by widebody911
The overall trend - irrespective of what you're told about the 'recovery' - is immense downward pressure on white-collar wages.

hmmm, I see it as immense pressure to build new business. After all "business" owes all those people high paying jobs. . . .right?

[campbellcj]

Take it from someone who has BTDT (several times), it is not pretty being on the handle end of the axe either.

For almost 15 years I have worked for (and now run) a family-controlled software business. It is a tiny niche firm that has varied from 2 people to 29 over the years.

But we have survived, and over that time a number of people (and their families) have had 5-10-15 years of gainful employment.

Many, many smallish companies caught in a down-cycle, or a specific large transaction going sour, will easily collapse inwards when financial pressure gets too great. Total liquidation on behalf of creditors (chapter 7), in other words...

We "choose" to not let it get that far -- which takes forward cash flow planning/visibility and also unfortunately does require "variable expenses" to be varied downwards once in a while.

I am always truly sorry to hear when hard-working, competent folks lose their jobs suddenly. But it is a tough world out there and if it comes down to feeding my family or somebody else's...it is basic instinct.

As for seeking "job security" in self-employment...ROFLMAO! Before cutting pay, benefits, or headcounts in bad times I and the other top earners have always gone to 0 - 50% pay while still working more than fulltime. Some have even "loaned" the company money. And with no guarantees... Such is the life of an entrepeneur; the rewards far outweigh the risks for many of us, otherwise we would all work for Walmart or GE by now.

[JTO]

Chris,
Thanks for the comments. I know what you are saying is true but,
I believe there is more control when self employed. The types of businesses that my wife and I are pursuing don't require either one of us to show up everyday. Let's hope that gradually over the next few years our dependance on my current employer begins to shrink until that time when this paycheck is not required to run the household. Simple dream.

Troy

[island911]

Originally posted by campbellcj
. . . As for seeking "job security" in self-employment...ROFLMAO! . . ...

Did someone say self-employment provided more "job security"? I must have missed it.

One thing is for certain, if one does decide to go the self-employment route, your visiblity of whats coming down the track goes way up.

Hmmm, Now what was that saying? . . .something about "knowledge & power". . .hmmm.

[pwd72s]

Troy, your resin skills may be useful at ODOT...I'm serious here. Despite the press hype about government crisis and "cuts", Government jobs tend to be secure, and the bennies are tremendous. If job security is paramount to you, that may be an area worth researching...
BTW...I tried to send this via PM...your box is full.

[HarryD]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Troy, your resin skills may be useful at ODOT...I'm serious here. Despite the press hype about government crisis and "cuts", Government jobs tend to be secure, and the bennies are tremendous. If job security is paramount to you, that may be an area worth researching...
BTW...I tried to send this via PM...your box is full.

Paul,

To amplify what you are saying, that is part of why I am happy to be at the Air Base now. Add to it, a very interesting job and the ability to make a difference, plenty cool.

[tabs]

Who promised all U guys anything anyway? U think your lives aren't going to be without struggle without hardship. Guess again, I personally think U boyz have bin watching too much TV, and have bought into the myth that your all supposed to have it made and live on easy street. I think U all have forgotten to listen to Grandpa or maybe even Great Grand Pa by now.

[Moneyguy1]

I will also vouch for "government" jobs. After being laid off from aerospace projects four times in three years to "cutbacks" in the late 70s, I got my Master's and went to work for government for 20 years, doing financial planning/real estate on the side. Retired early, moved to the nice warm Southwest and never looked back. Have a modest pension, still do financial planning on the side and stay busy.

Many companies now have changed their retirement plans from a "defined benefit" system ( so many dollars for every year of service based on final average salary) to a "defined contribution" system which, in boom times can be quite nice but is sensitive to the market. One could have accumulated a healthy amount but along comes a year 2000 turndown and a considerable amount of capital is lost and retirement becomes an iffy affair due to the loss of interest/dividend income. And, the tax ramifications of trying to remove the bulk of the money to a "safer" shelter outside the "plan" makes it nearly impossible.

Diversify your investments. The younger you are the more chances you can take. But, if the "plan" has a low risk option, even though it may have low return as well, part of your account should be in this option, increaasing the percentage the closer you get to getting that gold plated watch (do they still do that?)

So there are two types of individuals, (actually it is a sliding scale) from extreme risk takers to those for whom security is paramount. See where you fit on this scale and act accordingly.

One last thing. Start your investments early. Compound interest works wonders. A difference of ten years (starting at 35 vs 45 for example) can result, by age 65, in the low six figure range, aven accounting for modest regular contributions.

[tabs]

It all just makes me want to cry like a btch...gone is the house in CA, gone is the RR, gone is the 66 Big Block Corvette with matching numbers....now all I have left is this defective trailer here in Gawdless Las Vegas, where they will heartlessly suck U dry....

Mother and Daddy I wana come home...pleaze pleaze turn my nightmares into a dream....

[JTO]

Thanks Paul. I'm sorry my PM was full. Don't know why because it looked empty to me!
I guess I hadn't thought about gov't jobs. I may have to think about them now that you mentioned it.

Harry, I may have to pick your brain a bit about what your doing exactly.

Tabs, I certainly have never seen easy street.

Bob, Thanks for the comments. Like I said to Paul above; maybe I need to look at gov't. Some friends have been stable for years working for local and state gov't. I'll log on and see what's going on.

As far as investing; we are doing so and started in our twenties. We also are buying homes in the area (have three so far including our residence). We just need to keep pushing and act like the current gig will last only six month because it may certainly be that way.

Thanks everyone (even Tabs) for chiming in on this. I am actually fairly confident that things happen for a reason and this kind of thing doesn't take the wind out of my sails for long. Its quite motivational. Plus, I am still employed!

Troy

[Moneyguy1]

JTO:

Just a word of warning. Working for Government can be (sometimes) rather stiltifying. I did intruduce lots of changes over the years (old engineering habits don't die), but the opposition was staggering. For me, I viewed that as a challenge. Elected officials come and go; be patient and keep making your points. With elected types, let them think it was their idea all the time. Egos are strong in most of them. It isn't as important who gets the credit as it is that the damn job gets done!!

Bob

[pwd72s]

Troy, you may have cleaned out your received items, but not the sent items...I made the same mistake, couldn't figure it out...

[tabs]

The last assignment my Daddy had working for the DOD (Army) was working as a Materials Engineer on the Stinger Missile. Of all ythe services he worked for, on various assignments he liked the Navy the best. They would send him to seminars and various other field trips. He felt the Army personnel were just plain stupid, and the Air Force was cheap.

Anyway I have digressed....What Daddy primarily did everyday was figure out how much money he was making everyday on his investments. He would figure out the total he made for each account on a daily, weekly monthly and yearly basis..and the percentage he was receiving. Now thats government work for U.

[tabs]

Now my Cousins wife got a really nice retirement from the Teamsters Union...She collects a pension from the Local and from the International. Plus she got a nice severance check from them in 6 figures. Her last boss was an attorney for the Union by the name of Buffalino and she went to work for him because her first boss went to jail...his name was Hoffa...Now thats what I call gratitude for service to an organization.