SUV trend finally slowing . . .

[CarreraS2]

SUV sales are slowing for the first time . . . particularly the larger SUVs.

One of the discussions today on Wall Street.

And read AutoWeeks for the last 6 months about what has been introduced at the major car shows the last year . . . lots of really hot sedans and sports cars.

The tide is finally turning!

As an AutoWeek columnist predicted around a year ago: "A 6,000 lb. vehicle used by a 100 lb. woman to take her 40 lb. child to the store to buy 2 ounces of cinnamon has to be self limiting."

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Maybe people are starting to wake the F up. . . just maybe.

Doubt it though.

[84porsche]

I truly hope so - I am tired of the headlights in my rearview mirror.

[techweenie]

"SUV sales are slowing for the first time . . . particularly the larger SUVs."

I thought this happened every time gas prices broke through $2 per gallon.

Much as I'd like to believe it, I just don't.

The basic motivation for buying the biggest possible SUV -- fear -- has not gone away. People are as fearful as ever.

[BlueSkyJaunte]

Tomorrow I'll be trading in my WRX sedan on a WRX wagon (27 MPG highway). Why, you ask?

So we still have some cargo capacity. Because the next step is dumping my wife's Tacoma (19 MPG, seats two) in favor of a new Prius.

The Porsche gets maybe 1000 miles a year lately. Sad. But the motorcycle is just as much fun and gets twice the mpg.

[cegerer]

Unless you guys are all driving Honda Hydrids or bicycles, you're no more than hypocrites. Disagree? OK. Tell us exactly where the line is drawn ..... I want weights and miles per gallon that are acceptable to you guys. Is a 4000 pound vehicle OK? How about 4050 pounds? How about a vehicle that gets 20MPG, is that OK? If not, how about 21 MPG, is that the threshold? Let's see some exact numbers ......

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Anything that unnecessarily endangers the lives of other drivers for ill-perceived "personal safety" that can be attained equally well or better by a well-engineered car that gets better than 20 MPG would probably suffice.

SUVs are idiotic vehicles typically driven by the most self-centered morons on the planet. NO concern for anyone else (the old "I want to be safe and f*ck everyone else" mentality), NO concern for the environment, NO concern for our dependence on foreign oil, NO concern for anything but their own egos in 99% of the cases! Honestly, how many of the SUVs (especially the "bling-bling", "luxury" models ever see ANY kind of off-road use other than maybe a gravel driveway at the owner's third vacation home)?

If you're in that SMALL minority that actually uses an SUV for a remotely justifiable use such as off-road, business-related hauling (and I don't just mean your 50' yacht), or whatever, then you might have a case, but the majority seem to be driven by the most self-indulgent *********s I've ever come across - particularly the so-called "luxury" models. This being a Porsche-oriented board, I'd have to say this includes the Cayenne. I'm still not convinced that there's ANYTHING an SUV can do that can't be done equally well or better by another vehicle that's already out there that is safer, more efficient, and less of an environmental time bomb than these gas-guzzling behemoths.

I don't want this to degenerate into another Cayenne-bashing thread, but since the proverbial can of worms has been opened I suppose I'll just throw my $0.02 in by saying that the Cayenne represents the biggest prostitution of the Porsche marquee to ever hit the streets. It (along with ANY so-called "luxury" SUV) is the most ridiculous, worthless, idiotic travesty of automotive development to ever roll off a factory assembly line - most of all those in Stuttgart.

What possible legitimate reason is there for a so-called "luxury" SUV to exist? I defy ANYONE to give me a valid reason. Hell, at least "true" Porsches have a legitimate justification for their design in racing / handling / performance! SUVs? Please. 99% of them could be replaced by Toyotas or Hondas and their owners would never know the difference or care as long as you told them the surrogate Toyota or Honda was the new "cool thing" and made them "da shiznit". It's all about ego for the VAST majority of the suckers that own these things.

[techweenie]

I chose the Grand Cherokee because it is around 3700 lbs. More, usually, with all the Porsche parts I haul around while I don't have a garage (right now I have a 915 in the back).

The old Cherokee was about 150 lb. less. Explorers are about 4299 lbs, I believe.

SoCal911SC, notice that 'intimidation' is a theme in much large SUV advertising. That's the anti-fear positioning Detroit is using.

Funny how just bringing up big trucks puts some folks here on immediate defensive.

[RoninLB]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile

SUVs are idiotic vehicles typically driven by the most self-centered morons on the planet.

the left lane SUVs are a very popular PD target. I like to follow a fast SUV about 1/8-1/4mi behind w/my V-1. Although a fast left lane BMW female doing her makeup is a ticket waiting to happen.
anyway..it distracts the PD from my 911.

[expat]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
.....self-centered morons....self-indulgent .....*********s....suckers....

Lion from Wizard of Oz (SUV driver) talking to Tin Man (no brains Porsche-O-Phile)
Oh yeahhh....oh yeahhh....why I oughtta....I oughtta (rolling his arms pretending to get ready for a punch up)....You Porsche wanker. What, do you have a midlife crisis or something....show-off....ego-centric wanker....gold chain wearing....uneconomic.... polluting....eurotrash driving....hairdresser type...

Get on a bloody push bike and ride or walk dunce! Catch a bus (oh yeah, not much use in SoCal because you want to drive everywhere, and the Car, but not SUV, is king), car pool, get a job closer to home and stop wasting our resources using your plaything toy car...what right have you got...geez....

Sticks and stones

Hey don't you live in America, you know the place where you have the right to freedom from oppression. Oh yeah that's right, its only free as much as YOU want it to be, after that everyone else can go sucks eggs. Hypocrit!

Hey Cegerer, this is fun eh!

[expat]

Oh and by the way you hypocrits, while we're getting rid of the SUV's how about this.....

'By the year 2020, the United States will produce three times the sewage it did in 1970'

and yep YOUR part of it!

Will you please stop visiting the toilet so often, become a vegetarian and plant your wastes in the forests as fertiliser Please stop any consumption that cannot be justified as life sustaining for our planet. If you have any questions feel free to contact me on my mobile...Oh but don't ring me at meal times, I love my meat and don't want it to get cold while being bothered by you and your...umm my...choices. Thanks for your co-operation.

Oh yeah....and Porshe-O-Phile, will you get rid of that damn motorbike of yours. It really pisses me the way you m/b guys zoom in between the traffic with no regard for anyone but your own safety. You guys cause accidents with your fast riding, stupid antics. We can't see you because your too small and insignificant, Oh yeah, and that goes for when your on the bike too

Yes doctor....I'm coming....

[cegerer]

heheheheee .... I can't believe you guys are taking the bait and actually coming up with numbers!

Sooo .... while you're at it, let's set a government-mandated horsepower-to-weight ratio too. Let's face it, nobody needs an oversteering 2300 pound car with 200 horsepower that does 150MPH - of course, WE can all handle that, but it would be highly dangerous to other motorists in the hands of the wrong driver - say, a soccer mom with a cell phone.

If you guys are truly concerned with road safety, put your efforts toward improving driver education/skill. Newsflash: SUV's don't drive themselves. One small example: we've got millions of senior citizens on the road who have no better skill, reaction time or judgement than someone who is legally drunk and could be arrested ..... yet, that's completely legal and acceptable. Who's more dangerous - me in my 5000 pound SUV or an 80 year old man having a 'senior moment' while blowing a red light in his Honda Civic? And if you think that 3300 pound Civic isn't going to cause much damage, you might want to do a Google-search for 'physics'.

[Rot 911]

My wife had an 2000 MR2 but wanted something she could haul more stuff around in, not to mention she wanted a back seat for our 3 year old's car seat. But she also wanted something with a sporty feel to it. Had to be a manual shifter. No automatic for her. Tested lots of cars and ended up with the Pontiac Vibe GT. Has 180 horsepower and a sport suspension. The really neat thing is the front passenger seat folds down flat along with the back seats and I can slide 8' 2x4's in there! Gets around 32mpg on the highway.

[island911]

freedom of choice -- allowed to drive what you want.
freedom of speech -- allowed to ridicule those whom make absurd choices.

Okay, an over simplification I know. We don't actually get to drive what we want. There are rules for safety that govern our vehicles. Unfortunatley, many of these basic saftey rules have been undermined by the "Truck" catagory.

The most haunting being bumper height. A few years ago I witnessed this problem first hand. Ever see a Volvo wagen, full of kids get rear-ended by a driver who apparently didn't get enough Tonkas as a kid?

Now I know Volvos fold like Ikea furniture, but the kids in the back would of had a better chance (of not getting squished) if the truck bumper was at least below the Volvos rear window.

I generally despise laws about a technology, but how about some standards!? If I drive around with a big beam sticking out the back, I put a flag on it, and drive fully aware of the extra hazard.
Unfortuantely, the average "SUV" driver expects their vehicle to be no extra hazard . . .but it is. This under-ride/over-ride problem is huge.

IMO, These jacked-up, rock-thowing, POS are a nusance at best.
If it has the wheels covered, and reasonable height bumpers, I don't care if it gets 2mpg.

wrt ride height, I believe Porsch-o-file may is right about one thing; This "jacked-up" thing *is* for idiots. . . the drivers are after (ill-perceived) "personal safety" that they believe can be attained by drive something resembling a raised battering ram.

People buy say a Jeep Cherokee over say a Jetta stationwagen. Why? . . The Cherokee is nothing but a jacked POS mini-stationwagen.

I suppose the boomers think they're better (more sporty) than their dull-stationwagen-driving-parents were. . . .if the stationwagen is on a lift-kit. (cracks me up)

The only thing notable about these jacked SUV is the DPJ (Darwinian-poetic-justice) of their high center of gravity, and their inherently weak roof structures.

[cegerer]

" ...... I find SUVs annoying because the companies that make them view the people who buy them as idiots. They are highly profitable for the makers. Ford makes $2500 on a Taurus, and $7500 on an Explorer. Because SUVs are generally based on cheaper truck chassis. Most "luxury" SUVs are pickup trucks with a shell welded on and some low grade leather thrown on the seats. And an extra $10K of pure profit added on."

I'll let you in on a little secret ..... I couldn't write the check fast enough for my Cayenne. I'll bet Porsche made a TON of money off me. I laughed all the way FROM the bank. And now I've got to drive it down to the store (by myself) to do some shopping (for something I could carry on a bicycle). I'll probably keep it in Tip mode because it's fun and brings the mileage down to 12MPG. It burns Premium so I'll probably have to top off the tank at around $2.25/gallon. And god help any of those pesky little do-gooders in their Hondas or Toyotas that get in my way ........

[techweenie]

"People buy say a Jeep Cherokee over say a Jetta stationwagen."

Jetta V6 wagon= $24K

My 4.0 Grand Cherokee 2WD, with Chrysler incentives - $22K

Jetta wagon: 52 cubic feet cargo

Grand Cherokee: 72 cubic feet cargo

Any other questions?

[island911]

Originally posted by techweenie
"People buy say a Jeep Cherokee over say a Jetta stationwagen."

Jetta V6 wagon= $24K

My 4.0 Grand Cherokee 2WD, with Chrysler incentives - $22K

Jetta wagon: 52 cubic feet cargo

Grand Cherokee: 72 cubic feet cargo

Any other questions?

Yeah, I've got another question;

Did you know that the Jetta rear seat folds down to give 70.6 cubic feet of cargo space?

[techweenie]

Nope, didn't know that.

[expat]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
I didn't read anywhere in his post, or in mine, saying that people should not be free to buy SUVs.

Really?

'What possible legitimate reason is there for a so-called "luxury" SUV to exist? I defy ANYONE to give me a valid reason.' Quote from P-O-F.

Why should anyone have to justify a valid reason other than it works for them and it's allowed under the rights given to people in the free world (sic). Yes he was saying (and I do understand it was his opinion, so that's fine) that he dosen't believe people should be free to buy an SUV. He supports this with some relevant arguement coloured by childish name calling.

Brian, the point I was trying to make (sorry it didn't make it) was that calling people by the names Porsche-O-Phile did was extremely pathetic. I understand it was a gross generalisation but it was nonetheless a very pathetic one.

Let's face it we know people here who could be easily charged with reckless endangerment when they drive their P-car and they are doing it knowingly. That's a lot worse than the soccer mum filling up a car parking space or taking up so much space in a lane of traffic that you need to back off a few metres to improve your view from behind.

[campbellcj]

If one of you guys can show me how to tow my race car and haul a few hundred lbs of wheels, tools, etc. with a hybrid or a "granola friendly" Subaru or Volvo wagon (merely 3500lbs vs 5000), I'd be glad to sell the SUV.

I think the fuel consumption and emissions arguments are WAY overblown. A modern SUV gets 15-20mph (when not hauling) if not more in some cases, and puts out far fewer emissions than anything with 4 wheels built 10-15 years ago.

I do agree that using a large SUV for solo commuting is ridiculous. We see FAR too many of them on the roads daily here in LA.