Sick, Sadistic *&%*&^&

Sonic dB · Sonic dB's Garage

This abuse of Iraqi prisioners really pisses me off.

Now they are saying that at least 25 were murdered?

Those abuses are totally inhumane and not representative of what Americans are all about... these so called soldiers responsible should be court martialed and then executed if found responsible for murder. Wouldnt that set an example?

djmcmath · 05-07-2004, 09:55 PM

I'm with you. Assuming that this board is a representative sample of the US population, we can safely assume that these people were acting totally without the support of the US. Have them drug out and shot (after a short court martial for the purposes of maintaining some semblance of miltary justice) as an example to the world of what happens to human rights violators.

But that's just my $.02. Feel free to disagree.

Dan

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I don't believe 25 incarcerated Iraqis were murdered. I believe 2 are considered homicides.

The fine young lady soldier featured in the pictures had told her folks 7 months ago that 'some bad stuff was going to come out.' She has since been knocked up by her superior.

speeder · speeder's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by techweenie
I don't believe 25 incarcerated Iraqis were murdered. I believe 2 are considered homicides.

The fine young lady soldier featured in the pictures had told her folks 7 months ago that 'some bad stuff was going to come out.' She has since been knocked up by her superior.

That's going to be one ugly, stupid baby.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

"That's going to be one ugly, stupid baby."

LOL.

Her parents are portraying her as a 'victim.' Watch for a book deal.

woodman · 05-08-2004, 05:52 PM

"Those abuses are totally inhumane..."

Hmmm...I wonder if the Arab community felt this way when our contractors over there were murdered, incinerated then dragged through the street and put on display like...well I hope you get the point.

I think what our soldiers did was worthy of the court marshall and possible jail time that they'll get. Kind of like fraternity hazing in comparison to the homicide bombers (many children sent to their deaths by their loving (?) parents), murders, maimings and other such things that have become a way of life over there. The problem is not us, its them.

350HP930 · 05-08-2004, 06:12 PM

The soldiers that are accused of beating prisoners to death are facing multiple charges, none of them includes any type of homicide or murder charge.

Looking at these and other charges that abusive guards are facing its pretty clear that our military is not serious about punishing people who were a little too enthusiastic about 'softening up the prisoners'.

As far as the post above this one, why are so many people enthusiastic to support this just because there are an equivalent number of morons on the other side?

on-ramp · 05-08-2004, 07:08 PM

many of them charged are claiming they were just following orders.

for example:

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?floc=FF-APO-1110&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20040508%2F0028887909.htm&sc=1110

woodman · 05-08-2004, 07:55 PM

I certainly dont support our soldiers hazing the prisoners. I do, however, liken it to fraternity hazing (not the raping/murdering allegations) in comparison to what occurs in the Arab regions. Specifically to what was done to the American contractors last month. Murdered, incinerated, dragged throught the street then put on display! We should have just leveled that place, IMHO.

It's all a matter of perspective. After all, we here are rather removed from what goes on over there, and have to determine the various degrees of right and wrong in these situations. I think overall, the people who attack others and us over there are very wrong for what they believe and in what they do to cause death, destruction and utter mayhem.

350HP930 · 05-08-2004, 08:12 PM

I know fraternities can be pretty bad sometimes, but do you concider shoving broom handles up people's asses and beating people to death 'hazing'?

djmcmath · 05-08-2004, 08:42 PM

I honestly don't think a more precise definition of "hazing" helps any. I think Right and Wrong are really more usable terms. Shoving a broom handle up an arbitrary orifice is Wrong. So is beating people to death. Is that technically "hazing," which is agreed to be wrong, or is it just plain wrong? Just trying to simplify....

Dan

speeder · speeder's Garage

Good point, it's just plain wrong. Maybe we can all agree on that and move on. No need to justify it w/ comparisons to other events, that is like saying, "I only murdered 10 innocent people. Saddam murdered hundreds (or thousands)."

Huh?? It goes to the heart of WTF we are doing there.

djmcmath · 05-09-2004, 08:18 AM

Quite frankly, I'm disappointe in the whole thing. I mean, come on, Hitler not only persuaded perfectly sane Germans to murder millions of perfectly innocent Jews, he also persuaded the jews to give up their hair, gold teeth, anything of value, etc. before bumping them off. Nero -- that was grand! I mean, soaking people in kerosene (or whatever) and lighting them on fire so you can wander around your garden at night? We hardly hold a candle to that kind of cruelty!!

Yup, we definitely need to work on this. I mean, if we were violently cruel, paid absolutely no attention to human rights, routinely tortured prisoners, etc. then really nobody would f--- with us, right? Boy, that's a much better plan ...

(end bitter sarcastic rant)

Dan

350HP930 · 05-09-2004, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by djmcmath
Yup, we definitely need to work on this. I mean, if we were violently cruel, paid absolutely no attention to human rights, routinely tortured prisoners, etc. then really nobody would f--- with us, right? Boy, that's a much better plan ...

Unfortunately in this debate there are a lot of people stating that they believe this is the path america should take.

on-ramp · 05-09-2004, 09:01 AM

here's more:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=3&u=/nm/20040509/ts_nm/iraq_abuses_detainees_dc

President Bush (news - web sites) has said the acts were "the wrongdoing of a few" and did not reflect the character of the 200,000 military personnel who have served in Iraq.

But rights groups disputed those assertions.

"These are part of a systematic method of torture and inhuman treatment," the IHRO spokeswoman said.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

350HP930: "Unfortunately in this debate there are a lot of people stating that they believe this is the path america should take."

I have to agree,

Unfortunately, I deal with some fairly unevolved individuals who are openly advocating genocide against Arabs.

I can guarantee there are plenty of people on this bbs who also feel that way, but just aren't articulating it.

350HP930 · 05-09-2004, 09:44 AM

If bush thinks there is anything unusual about this 'wrongdoing of a few' then he needs to brush up on his history.

Operation Phoenix would be a good place to start.

Operation Condor would be another.

djmcmath · 05-09-2004, 01:41 PM

Who says there's anything wrong with a few harmless assassinations? I mean, 1800 people per month is nothing huge, really. (end sarcasm) In all seriousness, political assassinations don't particularly bother me, in reasonable numbers. The theory is that the people who would be going to war against you will not make war if their leader is deposed. For example, had Hitler been offed before he really went crazy (and Hermie G., and a couple other top-enders, perhaps), the heart would have been ripped from Nazi Germany, and the millions of Germans (and Russians, and Poles, and ...) who died fighting that war might have lived.

That's the theory, anyway. Not that it matters, really -- 1800/month (like in Phoenix) is absurd -- that crosses the line from targetted assassination to ... something else, entirely. Similarly (or not), this current set of human rights violations is nothing like assassination of political leaders. It's a lot more like being random bullies to people that you happen to have positional authority over.

Dan

350HP930 · 05-09-2004, 02:18 PM

Well, don't forget that OP and OC involved the torture of tens of thousands of suspected militants to determine who would be eliminated.

We already know that our troops and private goons are doing a lot of torturing to find out who is who on the streets. I would also bet that a lot of people are being 'neutralized' as a result of that data, and how much do you want to bet that some of those people being tortured are naming anyone they can think of as an insurgent to get these guys to stop.

When it comes to the assasination teams, I gotta wonder if those mercenaries that were killed and dragged through the streets really were guarding some food delivery that was not being delivered that day, or whether they were a seek and destroy team who had the tables turned on them.

djmcmath · 05-09-2004, 02:21 PM

Good point 350, hadn't realized there were tortures behind all that. Even without the tortures, a "massive assassination campaign" doesn't really make much sense....

Dan