WMD? Wonder what the spin will be on this.

[techweenie]

More fodder for the spinners from AP:

"The chemicals were inside an artillery shell dating to the Saddam Hussein... era that had been rigged as a bomb in Baghdad, said Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman in Iraq.

It appears two chemical components in the shell, which are designed to combine and create sarin during flight, did not mix properly or completely upon detonation, a U.S. official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Kimmitt, however, said a small amount of the nerve agent was released.

...Sarin-type agents produced by Iraq were largely of low quality and degraded shortly after production, U.N. inspectors said in a March 2003 report. They said it was unlikely that agents produced in the 1980s would still work today."

There are those damn folks with actual knowledge speaking out again. Darn them.

[nostatic]

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=5169086

weren't there some previous "field tests" that gave false positives during the inspection process?

[dd74]

Cool. So they finally found WMDs in Iraq. A single 155mm shell with outdated gas. Well that solves everything, doesn't it. But here's one little problem per the article Nostatic posted.

The discovery represented the possibility of good and bad news for the Bush administration -- good that it could support long-unproven claims that Iraq possessed such weapons during the lead-up to the war, and bad that attempts are being made to use the weapons against U.S. occupiers.

Can't liberate a whole country with a U.S. coalition if all of them have been gassed to death, can you?

[fintstone]

DD
I am not so sure the gas is outdated...the "Saddam era" that it came from ended about 2 years ago...not in the '80's I wouldn't be too worried though. Even sarin gas equipped artillery shells are not very effective without an artillery piece to deliver them.....
Hey, I have an interview for a job tomorrow..subject matter expert developing DoD doctrine for emerging concepts/issues with this stuff. Sounds like fun! Wish me luck!

[araine901]

Didnt they find some mustard gas last week too?

[techweenie]

Finstone: "I am not so sure the gas is outdated...the "Saddam era" that it came from ended about 2 years ago...not in the '80's I wouldn't be too worried though. Even sarin gas equipped artillery shells are not very effective without an artillery piece to deliver them....."

According to Hans Blix, they thought there were around a dozen shells left over from '84. Because this particular item is in fragments, it will take a while to determine if it was one of those. I'm hoping they have the forensic experts there to examine the fragments.

[techweenie]

Oh, I forgot!

Dr. Blix was the butt of about three months worth of Mr. Magoo jokes from the Right. Well, forget his opinions, then.

[350HP930]

I will wait a few days for this story to be confirmed before I will put any faith in it.

It could end up like the dozens of other stories of 'WMDs FOUND' claimed by the military that ended up being pure BS.

[techweenie]

"I will wait a few days for this story to be confirmed before I will put any faith in it. "

Oddly, this is reported as happening a few days ago, and is still a bit vague, but Nick Berg's body was found, identified & reported by news sources within hours.

[Aurel]

Yeah, maybe it was just a marine who farted too loud after eating some nasty food...

Aurel

[Staylo]

From the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3722255.stm

"The 155mm artillery round had been set up as a roadside bomb and it exploded before the US military were able to diffuse it.

Gen Kimmitt said the dispersal of the nerve agent from a device such as the homemade bomb was "limited".

"The former regime had declared all such rounds destroyed before the 1991 Gulf War," he said.

However, a senior coalition source has told the BBC the round does not signal the discovery of weapons of mass destruction or the escalation of insurgent activity.

He said the round dated back to the Iran-Iraq war and coalition officials were not sure whether the fighters even knew what it contained."


So Lendaddy, your line:
" Just because the idiots didn't use it properly, it doesn't exist, Excellent"
...may just be correct after all!

[nostatic]

come on kids..."preliminary field tests". These are notoriously innacurate. As I recall the last positive test was due to the presence of paint thinner.

Acetone: the new WMD. It's not just a solvent anymore...or just for breakfast anymore.

strategery

[techweenie]

"Redefining the role of the United States from enablers to keep the peace to enablers to keep the peace from peacekeepers is going to be an assignment."
—GWB Interview with the New York Times, Jan. 14, 2001

[fintstone]

Originally posted by techweenie
"I will wait a few days for this story to be confirmed before I will put any faith in it. "

Oddly, this is reported as happening a few days ago, and is still a bit vague, but Nick Berg's body was found, identified & reported by news sources within hours.

I suspect that they did not intend for the info to get out and someone leaked it. The initial thought is that the terrorists did not realize it contained chemicals and were only using it for it's explosive value. If, by some chance, thay have more of these, we did not want them alerted to the fact that they had somehow acquired WMDs. We certainly wanted to try tpo ascertain their source before releasing the info.

[CamB]

Originally posted by fintstone
I suspect that they did not intend for the info to get out and someone leaked it. The initial thought is that the terrorists did not realize it contained chemicals and were only using it for it's explosive value. If, by some chance, thay have more of these, we did not want them alerted to the fact that they had somehow acquired WMDs. We certainly wanted to try tpo ascertain their source before releasing the info.

I actually agree! Wooohoo. Note time and date If there are a few of these things around (eg mixed up with non-sarin ones) it wouldn't pay for the bomb-layers to get ideas.

Of course, I disagree whether this legitimises the "WMD reason" for invasion.

[stuartj]

Even if this stuff is now found in huge quanities, its meaningless as a justifcation for invasion. It wasnt used, in Gulf War 1or Gulf War 2, its no state to be used, there is manifestly no infrastructure associated wth WMD destruction or their use. This is obvious given more than a year of occupation and unfettered access.

Given the fact that Iraq is crawling with arms and weaponary (very useful to have an armed citizenry when resisting an oppressive govt apparently), its certain that some of these WMD relics will turn up.

A viable WMD program it clearly isnt, notwithsatnding how many nuclear centrifuges are found in gardens, or jars of chemical under people's sinks. Your Govt has said so. Colin Powell knows it, and has said so. How long are you steely eyed missile men going to cling to this discredited fiction?

We been had. Admit it, its quite liberating.

stuart 87 carrera
964 c2

[ronin]

Originally posted by stuartj
Even if this stuff is now found in huge quanities, its meaningless as a justifcation for invasion.

so you're saying that there is no justification for invasion, no matter what, not at any time, never

[350HP930]

Are you saying we have to invade every nation that posseses sarin?

Thats a pretty large list you know.