Judge Rules Against Partial-Birth Abortion Law

[on-ramp]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040601/ts_nm/rights_abortion_dc


what do you think?

[Neilk]

It's a sick procedure that I wouldn't want to wish on any pregnant women. But if I were about to have a kid that was going to be vegetable all their life, I would want that option open to me.

[techweenie]

I think we have Congresspeople with high school science educations trying to legislate medicine.

Howzabout conservatives being true to their roots and just staying the hell out of the doctor-patient relationship?

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by techweenie
I think we have Congresspeople with high school science educations trying to legislate medicine.

Agreed.

This tracks right up there in intelligence with the debate on stem cell research.

Get an effing clue.

[Hugh R]

How about conservatives and liberals staying out of my wallet, my bedroom, my body and my life.

[Superman]

Tough questions. When I was a philosophy student, it occurred to me that our courts and legislative bodies (including Congress) have the least-easy questions in our society to deal with, because their turf is what you'd call "practical ethics." Ethics, but not theoretical ethics.

Clearly, we have toys we're not ready for. The atom, for example. The chromosome, for another.

Let's take stem-cell for a moment. I heard recently that medicine has just discovered that each of us retains a small amount of original stem cells, and that this deposit is located in our noses somewhere. Don't know if this is true but if it is, then that's a bonanza. That means that my own stem cells can be taken to help with my recovery from some future illness. Or perhaps it can be taken after my death and used to help others. But I have a very hard time with the specter of using fetal cells for these purposes. Don't tell me we're too mature to abuse this. Don't dare. When fetuses become valuable.........

So, yes I think these are important and difficult questions. Some of you may know that I get my spiritual direction from Rome. My faith (and yours, probably) is a matter of individual salvation rather than politics or group salvation. I can report that no abortion, particularly not the half-birth variety, is okay for me, Superman. Easy for me to say since I do not expect to become pregnant (at least not at the rate I am currently engaging in the activity said to be the cause of that condition, and also because I am not female), but true nonetheless. I would like to also discover that this is everyone else's decision too, but I am only in charge of my salvation, not theirs.

On the other hand, judges and politicians are not limited to the easy decision I have. If the Church is requesting that abortions become illegal, its purpose might be to change the social environment in which so many many fetuses are, ummmmm.....terminated. Oops, I think it is the pregnancy that is "terminated." what do you call it when a thing, which if left alone becomes an independent human being, and which has all the genes and much of the development of a human (a beating heart, for example), is...eliminated. The fetus is ___________.

Anyway, these are hard questions for the individual. Harder still when asked in the context of the community.

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Superman
I heard recently that medicine has just discovered that each of us retains a small amount of original stem cells, and that this deposit is located in our noses somewhere.

So when I'm picking my nose, I'm doing stem cell research. Damn, I'm smarter and more illegal than I thought I was...

I do not expect to become pregnant... because I am not female

oh sure, like we're supposed to believe *that* comment...

What next? Tabs isn't satan? Island isn't really a cranky hermit living on a fortified island? Flinstone isn't actually Dick Cheney posting under a pseudonym? I'm not actually working for black ops flying helicopters? The truth man...we need the truth.

yes, I know...I can't handle the truth...

[techweenie]

Remember the House member who argued a couple years ago that a rape couldn't result in a pregnancy because of physiological reasons?

Want to guess which party this enlightened soul came from?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by techweenie
Remember the House member who argued a couple years ago that a rape couldn't result in a pregnancy because of physiological reasons?

Want to guess which party this enlightened sould came from?

The "Girls Gone Wild Vol. 18 - in-DeCent in DC" premier party?

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by nostatic
The "Girls Gone Wild Vol. 18 - in-DeCent in DC" premier party?

Ouch. LMAO!!!!!!

[Moses]

Hate joining this thread, but this is a topic about which I know a great deal. The problem is that the extremists on both sides hold indefensible positions. Many right to life folks would deny abortion even to victims of rape and incest. Patricia Ireland of N.O.W. has stated a preference for abortion on demand at any gestational age, up until a woman delivers at term spontaneously!

Now the medical facts: In 12 states, abortion is legal past the point where the fetus is fully viable outside the womb. Partial birth abortion is a technique used to abort large fetuses that might be viable if delivered. Contrary to "expert" medical testimony, there is no medical condition that requires this procedure to preserve maternal health. When maternal medical emergencies arise that require early delivery, induction of labor or Cesarean delivery are safer than the partial birth procedure.

It seems to me that the elective termination of a fully developed and viable fetus is a freedom our society could do without.

Just the way I see it.

[Burnin' oil]

Partial birth abortion is murder. If you disagree with that statement, then research the issue and get back to me.

[Superman]

No kiddin'. Do the research. Find out what this "partial birth abortion" is, and then, when you understand the procedure, then come back here and try to tell us you're okay with it. Fact is, don't do the research immediately prior to or after a meal.

[techweenie]

Well, since "partial birth abortion" is not a medical term, but one used by opponents of the procedure, I would expect a search on that term to produce only fair and balanced articles.

Right.

New let's hear from the Ob/Gyns on the BBS.

Abortion stops (kills) a heartbeat, regardless of the age (1st minute or 9th month) of the whatever name (fetus) you give it. Society can't stop a heart beat of any other human being without it being called murder.

[Icemaster]

Originally posted by long board
Abortion stops (kills) a heartbeat, regardless of the age (1st minute or 9th month) of the whatever name (fetus) you give it. Society can't stop a heart beat of any other human being without it being called murder.

Incorrect.

Heartbeat does not begin at 1 minute, more like roughly 4 weeks.

Again, misinformation promulgated by the extreme right to life sect. Please check your facts before you adopt them as belief.

Late term abortion I think is one of the medical terms. I can't agree that it would ever be necessary, it is barbaric. The only reason I can see is that the child simply isn't wanted. It's too late by then to make that kind of choice, there are other options.

As with extremists on both sides, it's a binary issue, either yes, or no, on or off. Your either for it all or against it all.

Edit: Spelling sucked today...

[nostatic]

if you believe that a diploid cell is a sentient being, then more power to you.

Why is it I have "Every sperm is sacred" running through my head?

[azasadny]

Moses and Superman make alot of sense! Thanks, guys!

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Icemaster
the extreme right to life sect.

Actually I prefer to think of these as "right to birth" sects. As far as I can tell, they don't give a damn about the "heartbeat" after it is born, nor do they care about any of the other people involved or the myriad parameters and decisions that present themselves. Much easier living in a black/white world...

the extreme right to life sect

Just where do you get off labeling someone you don't even know?

Please check your facts before you adopt them as belief.

As with extremists on both sides, it's a binary issue, either yes, or no, on or off. Your either for it all or against it all

As far as I can tell, they don't give a damn about the "heartbeat" after it is born, nor do they care about any of the other people involved or the myriad parameters and decisions that present themselves.

I majored in ethics and read much evidence/writings that are in fact quite the opposite. All those involed do not see it as an either or fallacy. Do you really "believe" that all those who care about the right to life position are made up of nothing but those who don't care after the birth?

Please check your facts before you adopt them as belief.[/