Worth a second read a year later...

[joeclarke]

Sorry guys, I hate to keep stoking this fire, particularily with old stuff, but hell, someone from the sane side of the debate has to counter Finstone and company (with their relentless beak-flapping) from time-to-time.

This is a gem of a quote that I stumbled across in migrating files to a new computer...

"All right, let me see if I understand the logic of this correctly. We are going to ignore the United Nations in order to make clear to Saddam Hussein that the United Nations cannot be ignored. We're going to wage war to preserve the UN's ability to avert war. The paramount principle is that the UN's word must be taken seriously, and if we have to subvert its word to guarantee that it is, then by gum, we will. Peace is too important not to take up arms to defend. Am I getting this right?

Further, if the only way to bring democracy to Iraq is to vitiate the democracy of the Security Council, then we are honor-bound to do that too, because democracy, as we define it, is too important to be stopped by a little thing like democracy as they define it.

Also, in dealing with a man who brooks no dissension at home, we cannot afford dissension among ourselves. We must speak with one voice against Saddam Hussein's failure to allow opposing voices to be heard.

We are sending our gathered might to the Persian Gulf to make the point that might does not make right, as Saddam Hussein seems to think it does. And we are twisting the arms of the opposition until it agrees to let us oust a regime that twists the arms of the opposition. We cannot leave in power a dictator who ignores his own people. And if our people, and people elsewhere in the world, fail to understand that, then we have no choice but to ignore them.

Listen. Don't misunderstand. I think it is a good thing that the members of the Bush administration seem to have been reading Lewis Carroll. I only wish someone had pointed out that "Alice in Wonderland" and "Through the Looking Glass" are meditations on paradox and puzzle and illogic and on the strangeness of things, not templates for foreign policy. It is amusing for the Mad Hatter to say something like, `We must make war on him because he is a threat to peace,' but not amusing for someone who actually commands an army to say that. As a collector of laughable arguments, I'd be enjoying all this were it not for the fact that I know--we all know--that lives are going to be lost in what amounts to a freak, circular reasoning accident. --"

Peter Freundlich / National Public Radio / 13.03.03

[techweenie]

Great quote!

[fintstone]

Gee I hate to urinate on the fire you are attempting to stoke, but......Guess if you can't find any news or op eds that are bad enough, you can always reprint a sad old article predicting doom that never happened... and wish it were so. How about something a bit more current with a bit less sobbing...like a report from an arab think-tank:

Arab Report: Iraq Situation Improving
May 30, 5:33 PM (ET)

CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Despite war and occupation, Iraq has seen a surge in human rights organizations, political parties and independent newspapers - entities almost unheard of under Saddam Hussein, said a report by an Arab think tank.

The report by Egypt's Ibn Khaldoun Center for Development Studies welcomed the promise of elections, the freedom of expression and independence of the media but was careful not to credit the Americans for the progress.

"Even though all indications of political rights and human rights mentioned in this report clearly illustrate that the situation in Iraq after occupation is much better than Saddam Hussein's Iraq, the truth remains that any situation would have been better than Saddam Hussein," the report said.

The report, "Civil Society, Democratic Transformation and Minorities in the Arab World," issued in late May, covered the changes in the country until December 2003.

The 250-page Arabic report reviews civil society, democratic transformation and minorities in 19 Arab countries. The report will be issued in English by July.

[CamB]

Fint - Techweenie's article had nothing about whether the war was going badly or not.

It just highlighted that the rationale for war sucked a year ago (as it still sucks now).

'We must make war on him because he is a threat to peace' - class.

Lets put it another way - if the sole purpose was to depose Saddam, and there was no immediate rush (lets say... no WMD), what could have been accomplished in the last year by the UN?

[fintstone]

Originally posted by CamB
Fint - Techweenie's article had nothing about whether the war was going badly or not.

It just highlighted that the rationale for war sucked a year ago (as it still sucks now).

'We must make war on him because he is a threat to peace' - class.

Lets put it another way - if the sole purpose was to depose Saddam, and there was no immediate rush (lets say... no WMD), what could have been accomplished in the last year by the UN?

And niether did mine.

It just highlighted the fact that even Arabs admit the positive affect on freedom in the region.

What could the UN have accomplished in the last year.??.the same thing it accomplished in the previous 12 years...nothing
.....except line the pockets of several anti-american regimes in europe.

[Purrybonker]

Hot damn, you're on to sumpin' here now good buddy...

"What could the UN have accomplished in the last year.??.the same thing it accomplished in the previous 12 years...nothing
.....except line the pockets of several anti-american regimes in europe."

Even though that statement is downright hilarious, it still sounds a whole lot better than the ongoing wastage of human life and good ol' yankee dollars that's going on in Iraq.

But, thanks for that chuckle-of-the-day.

[kach22i]

Originally posted by fintstone
Gee I hate to urinate on the fire you are attempting to stoke, but......Guess if you can't find any news or op eds that are bad enough, you can always reprint a sad old article predicting doom that never happened...

Because of the hard work of many, yet it seems to few.

I thought Rummy was the one who said something like "war is the way to Peace".

Related:

Army Program to Keep Some Soldiers on Duty
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_us_military_6

The Army is struggling to find fresh units to continue the occupation of Iraq. Almost every combat unit has faced or will face duty there or in Afghanistan, and increased violence has forced the deployment of an additional 20,000 troops to the Iraq region, straining units even further.