What's with the Saudis and Bin Laden?

[motion]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/06/08/poll.binladen/index.html

It will be interesting to see how the Saudi/U.S. relationship pans out in the future. Its something that I just don't friggin understand for the most part... let's see... we buy most of their damn oil, giving them prosperity, yet they support a home-grown terrorist who has waged a jihad against us. Am I missing something? I guess they all hate us.

[island911]

didn't read the link (CNN, ya know)

but my understanding is that the "Saudi Royal Family" is essentially siding with the US. However, their majority population sides with binladen. (and has for quite some time. . .pre 9/11)

So when someone says "the Saudis. . ." more specifics are needed.

[azasadny]

The Saudis are conflicted, they hate us but love our money...

[motion]

I dunno Island... does anyone remember the reasons (then Mayor) Guilliani refused the $10 million check to help aid NYC from one of the members of the Saudi family?

[azasadny]

Richard,

I seem to remember something like that but I don't know if it was true or just a rumor. Some Saudi offered the $ but also said something to the effect that "you Americans brought on 9/11 because of your support for Israel and the Palestinians are suffering, blah, blah, blah" I wonder if it's true. The truth is that as long as we (USA) support Israel and are Israel's ally, many Arabs and Arab nations will despise us and seek our destruction. There isn't anything we can do... to pacify or satisfy them.

[theFONZ]

When I was in Saudi Arabia it seemed a lot of the things there (even on the US base) was built by "Bin Laden Constructon." You could find those markings all over the place. From what I understood by talking to some locals, the Bin Laden family is a very rich one. They also said Osama has been banished from the family. Who knows?

[motion]

I believe you are correct on all counts, silver944.

[turbocarrera]

Yeah, the Bin Laden family has disowned Osama publicly, what they do in private is another matter entirely. They are the richest family in the middle east, next to the Saudi Royals, and funded the Mujahideen vs the Soviets. When Osama finished with the Russians in Afghanistan, he declared a new target. He considers Saudi ground "holy" and the presence of US troops there is sacrilege to him. He would surely have attacked the Royal family for allowing this, had they not channeled money to him through national charities which are all controlled by the Royal family. Protection money? For sure.

Why hasn't the Saudi Royal Family or the Bin Laden family been given the same treatment as the Taliban? Why were several private flights allowed to leave the US on Sept 13, 2001, carrying Bin Laden and Saudi Royal family members almost exclusively? Wouldn't the FBI want to question them? I think we all know the answer to that one.

A woman who lost her son in the WTC attacks, and was not allowed to fly to NYC to find him, along with over 4000 other participants, are bringing a trillion dollar lawsuit against the Saudi Royals, for funding the 9/11 attacks. I pray that they win.

[joeclarke]

Listen carefully and I will explain it to you...

This another example of how Joe-average-American doesn't understand what his own government is doing to create anti-US sentiment around the world.

OK here we go, take a seat...

The Suad legacy is one of extreme brutality that makes Saddam look like a complete pussycat by comparison. This nation is now ruled in dictatorial fashion by a royal family that is disliked by it's own people. Many fundamental freedoms are severely restricted or non-existant, particularily those relating to women.

There have been several widespread protest movements and insurgenices against the royal family over the years - but these have been quashed with military/police action by the royal family.

The US now has a large contingent of military personnel and equipment in place inside their borders to help maintain "stability". The actual effect of the US presence there is too keep the royal family in power in oppression of the Saudi people.

If this situation sounds ironic to you in comparison to the US bleating about freeing the people of Iraq - you are beginning to get insight into the minds of many people around the world. Walk a mile in their shoes and you may glimpse the roots of anti-US sentiment.

Don't buy the BS that they hate us "because we have money" or because they are a "brainwashed bunch of fundamentalists". People dislike America because of it's selfserving foreign policies that punish the very people they purport to protect.

So endeth the lesson.

[lendaddy]

Hmm, I thought we have only had troops in Saudi since '91? Even then I do not recall any instance of them ever protecting the Royal family. Also, we have recently pulled all but a few "training corps" from the country. I assume this is to your likeing? Hard to imagine that 13 years of 5000 of our guys on their borders(weapons pointed the other way), not meddling with their affairs, has caused such hatred. But I defer to the master

[Staylo]

Originally posted by lendaddy
Hard to imagine that 13 years of 5000 of our guys on their borders(weapons pointed the other way), not meddling with their affairs, has caused such hatred. But I defer to the master

If you find that hard to imagine, you have obviously missed the point. History lessons are in order.

[singpilot]

I think history lessons are in order for all of us.

I just saw a BBC special on the British 'liberation' of Iraq right after WWI...

Same scenario as ours.

Exactly.

It didn't turn out well for them either.

[lendaddy]

Staylo, I will admit that I was unaware that the Saudi People were indifferent to us prior to '91. Thanks for the lesson.

[Hugh R]

I used to work for a company called Tetra Tech, they were, and still are, an environmental consulting firm. In the 80's they ran a group called Tetra Tech International which was contracted by the U.S. Government, to map the oceans of the world. For some reason, our boats were mapping the coast of Chile months BEFORE Allende' fell, same for Haiti when Papa Doc fell, ditto for Panama, Nicaraqua, Iran, the Philippines, and a host of other countries. Our boats were the 80's equivalent of the "Russian Fishing Trawlers" for those of you old enough to remember their significance. Once, one of our "consultants" was at Dulles Airport headed to Oman and Jordan and his brief case latch broke and out fell several hundred thousand dollars.. He, the bag and the money were wisked away by security and he still made his flight. We were the bag man for the CIA in Jordan (true story, I heard it personally from the President of Tetra Tech). Make no mistake about it, The U.S. has caused or significantly contributed to the over throws of many, many countries, communist, socialist, and democratically elected. Right now, we have "advisors" in Columbia, Brazil and other South American countries protecting U.S. oil pipelines that belong to Occidential Petroleum. The reason that many people hate us isn't our money, its our protecting and propping up repressive governments as long as they serve our best interests. I'm a fiscally conservative republican and I love this country, and to some extent I don't even have a problem with protecting our interests abroad, but you need to be intellectually honest with yourself. For example, do you realize that we give Isreal $10 million A DAY! What do we get out of the deal? And you wonder why Palestinians were celebrating when the World Trade Center were attached?

[lendaddy]

To add, why don't the Japanese and Germans attack us? We have a dwarfing presence there? Please.

[speeder]

Originally posted by lendaddy
To add, why don't the Japanese and Germans attack us? We have a dwarfing presence there? Please.

Do you expect to be taken seriously w/ remarks such as this?

Back to school for you, I'm afraid.

And Hugh, Excellent post!

[lendaddy]

By you??? Well no I guess. It's called using absurdity to respond to absurdity.

[joeclarke]

Len - why are you so quick to condemn Saddam for his mistreatment of his own people, yet you refuse to acknowledge how the Saud royal family abuses it's people?

The difference in your posture (and that of the GWB administration) is that the Saudi's "play ball" with us so their travesties are overlooked. If Saddam had kissed a little US butt and became a US puppet, he too would still be in power in Iraq today - killing people at will, just like the Saudis.

Len - don't forget that the boys flying the planes on September 11th were Saudi nationals, not Iraqi's or Afghani's.

[lendaddy]

Silver944,

I have a question, I see you were in Saudi with the AF. While you were there, were our guys monitoring the Saudi public or "keeping them stable" as Joe claims? Or where you basically using Saudi as a jump off for NFZ opperations? Combination? Thanks, in many respects.

[lendaddy]

Len - why are you so quick to condemn Saddam for his mistreatment of his own people, yet you refuse to acknowledge how the Saud royal family abuses it's people?

Please show me where I have done so. Seriously! I only argue the reasons they hate us. I will hang my arse out in the wind here Can you show me one instance of the US military engaging the Saudi public? Much less to "protect" the Royal Family? I mean that's quite a claim, no?