Nice tidy dissertation there Craig - I'm with you until the calendar rolls forward to November. Your exceedingly valid argument will then cease to hold water.

GWB is gonna go down - and hard.

Virtually any dem ticket could take down W in 2004. All they have to do is show up. That's why the dems have opted for bland and blander as running mates. As you correctly observe, they loose ground everytime Kerry opens his yap. There's no upside for the dems here - all they can possibly do is shoot themselves in the feet.

Whereas George long ago commited hari-kari, he just hasn't finished bleeding out yet. For the logical amongst us, our only hope would have been for him to do so before November, 2004.

...then again Ross was my man, too. I just loved those little drawings he made "all by himself".

There are several things that don't bode well for W. One, he is actually running campaign adds in Texas! He shouldn't have to run ads here! Also, the race was very tight in 2000 and Bush has not energized his base at all. The Dems are charged up, not for Kerry, but against Bush. Also, my parents are actually considering Kerry! They are pretty conservative, but don't like what W and the GOP has done with the spending.

Having said all that I am basing my prediction of a W win on a couple of things.

1) Kerry is liberal who has trouble passing himself off as a moderate.

2) It's hard to win an election when all you have is dislike for another guy - people like voting FOR someone rather than against someone.

3) Bush is the nastiest campaigner I've ever seen. He's more brutal than Clinton. Look how he did McCain in North Carolina in the primary.

4) He's got a boatload of jack to spend

5) I believe the economy will break his way and Iraq will settle down.

6) The left hit the nitrous too soon. They hammered W too hard too early. The prisoner abuse will have long been forgotten, Farenheit 911 will be gathering dust at Blockbuster, the sound bite mentality of Americans will come to grips with the fact that the WMD's have left the country.

7) Hillary wants Kerry to lose so she can give it a try in 2008.

Craig

Edwards wants Kery to lose to....Edwards is in a win win situation. If Kerry loses he will be the man in 2008 to beat for the nomination and if Kerry wins he will be the man to beat in 2012 when Kery leaves office...that is IF there still is a country left.

Tabs, that is outrageous! That is too sinister to even consider. Although, if that is the case and the Democrats did pick a guy who would sabotage the party for his own selfish purposes, you could legitimately ask Kerry "why the long face?"

Craig

Who do U think taught Machivelli his trade?

I don't know how to feel about that quote. Can I stand another 4 years of Bush? No way. I guess one upside of having Edwards on the ticket is that he will make a good Democratic presidential candidate to counter Hilary should Kerry lose in November.

Anybody but Bush 2004
Anybody but Hilary 2008

When the events were going down, I wasn't looking for the president. I was more concerned about the actions of those well below the president. I would rather see a system that is prepared to react without the blessing of the almighty president.

I guess my point is did Bush's inaction result in the loss of more lives? Did his inaction for the minutes create greater chaos in NYC? The fact he did waiver does bother me, but I don't feel he's an idiot.
just my opinion, jurgen

So U all think he waivered.....Take a look at the footage....he set his jaw and his beady eyes narrowed...Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action, in other words U do go off half cocked.

What purpose would his leaving have served, there was nothing he could have done at the moment anyway except caused panic. By sitting there it shows a man in control, and when his people were ready he got up and left.... his actions were very delibrate.


Sorry Boyz but U are buying into Fk O's propaganda ....

Another point I forgot to bring up about Fk O....viewed from the perspective of the Ceo and Chairman of XOM....Fk O is about as informed/knows what really is going on about as much as a cockroach does...and is about as bothersome to the power structure as a fly... So in other words Fk O doesn't know what he is talking about.

tabs taking the side of a big oil exec - not suprising.

What about before he even entered the classroom when he knew of the first plane? He knew al-Qaida was planning to attack the US using hijacked airplanes, he knew that the WTC had been attacked by terrorists not long ago, and he knew the same building had just been hit by an airplane with massive casualties - but he decided to read a childrens book instead of getting on the horn.

To you that "shows a man in control". Unbelievable.

What do you expect him to say? "bin laden, please tell your planes to turn around. Pretty please, with sugar on top."'

You make the presumption that he knew the first plane had hit the WTC...and if he did the first reports were that it was an accident, and the size of plane wasn't known. The second plane left no doubt...like I said watch the footage..he sets his jaw and his eyes grow beady...not wide eyed and glazed over like a deer in the headlights...

Hind sight is always best, remember fog of war obscures whats really going on.

Let's spell it out if he had jumped up and left in a hurry the country would have had the perception that things were out of control. If U sit the perception that there is no reason to panic, that things are under control......

I'm as amused as Techweenie. I know you guys are proud of Dubya kicking some brown-faced ass and having the world's bad guys quivering in fear, but I could have done that and no, they're not quivering in fear.

But the truly hilarious part is where you explain how the 'deer in the headlights' look is a display of leadership qualities. How taking command at that point would not be the behavior of a leader. Heck, even if he could not reach his partners, even if he would have had to face the cameras with no information, I would have sought the opportunity, if for no other reason than to communicate with the American people, assure them that all that can be done is being done, and helping people to deal with this as a nation. Another golden leadership opportunity squandered. Of course, I would prefer to be comforted by someone who can pronounce words correctly but the fact remains that he left the podium empty.

So, I am in the mood for some levity. Let's hear some more about how reading childrens' books is an appropriate activity for a President to pursue while his country is under attack.

Some points from my experience in military leadership and casualty situations:
1 - The best advice anyone every gave me on dealing with emergencies was "Stop and think." Really -- stop, and think. The instinctive reaction, when presented with an adrenaline rush of an emergency is to leap into some action. What most people don't realize is that most of the time, the instinctive reaction isn't right. In order to minimize stupid mistakes, the best leaders wait just a moment before leaping into action. Heck, even after pausing to clear my mind, I've still done some stupid things .... :)

2 - Leaders who leap into action and make sudden jumpy decisions look terrible. They look panicky. My favorite leaders are the ones who act the same all the time -- when the fit hits the shan, they're calmly holding their coffee and quietly giving orders to the troops. There's no tension in their voice, there's no rush (though there can be a sense of urgency), there's no panic. That action instills confidence in the troops, who proceed to take more carefully thought out and correct actions.

3 - Leadership doesn't have to be in one particular place. If an event happens at my command, I don't have to be physically present to take action, to make decisions, etc. When a casualty happens in the engine room of the ship, the captain doesn't go there -- he goes to the control room. Moreover, he doesn't rush there, because he trusts the people at the scene to take the correct actions. A leader who doesn't trust his people builds poor subordinates.

4 - The Admiral doesn't read newspapers either. He has people who read newspapers for him, then summarize the important points, if necessary. The CNO takes briefings from different people on different topics while he's in the car on the way to work (why do you think he has a driver), while he's walking from his car to his office, etc. Heck, I've known of Admirals who received briefs while they were in the bathroom.

So what's my point? Of course W waited a moment. He didn't need to leap into a panicked frenzy sprinting off barking orders. Why would the President, who is incredibly more important than any mere Admiral, read a newspaper, sprint off to New York, or do anything other than stop to ponder the surprising turn of events? Sure, he's made some mistakes, but stopping for a few minutes before taking action on a completely unexpected event was probably not one of them.


Dan

Well I own a few shares of XOM and CVX, and they have done very well by me.

However it doesn't take any genius to see from the perspective of the CEO and Chairman of XOM....I would love to know half the things that boy has in his head about the deals that have gone down. As Chairman of the 2nd largest corporation on Earth and being in the most Strategicily important business on the planet, I would have to rate him as being one of the most powerfull men in the World.


Most Powerfull in the World:

1. GW Bush...by default, his advantage is.. he has his finger on the button, and has control of the US Military.

2. Alan Greenspan...Almost a tie with GW, one word from him and the WORLD financial markets go up or down.

3. Hard to delinate...as an indivduals power fluxuiates Blair, Chriac, Schroder, Premier of China...

4. Various Political Leaders in the USA...McCain, Kerry, Biden etc...again it's hard to delinate. Secratary of State, Secratary Defense

5. Various Business leaders...Ceo XOM, Bill Gates, Hank Goldberg (AIG), Warren Buffet....

6. All the rest of the peons...

Tabs,
You forgot the "real" President, Chaney. His a** was in a bunker that day,TCB. W is too stupid to run my screen print business, much less our Country.

Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

Being Prez is a difficult job...on one hand his security is of utmost importance, being the leader that he is. Secondly he can't really go to ground...as he is a moral leader as well and going to ground would not inspire confidence in the system.

Remember boyz 66% of the USA economy is the good ole consumer, and the USA is 50% or greater of the world economy...So if you panic the herd ahhh lemmings..there will be NO ECONOMY....and if there is no economy where does that leave us. There in is the rub boyz.

as he is a moral leader as well and going to ground would not inspire confidence in the system.


Tabs,
You funny SOB! You have a better sense of humor than I thought. Nobody will ever accuse Dubya of Being moral or inspiring confidence. I love your tounge-in cheek humor.

Alan Poh
'77 Carrera 3.0

Dubya maybe a lot of things but by being Prez you aquire a certain moral leadership responsihbility. It is a mantle of responsibility being considered the father figure to the nation. "Man If he ducks and runs for cover, things are done for, cause he knows more about what really gonin on than the Media tells us. "

Apparently you are really in the mood for some petty nitpicking that lacks any substance whatsoever...I recently saw a clip of Edwards on some beach shaking hands. He went up to this little girl and put his hand flat onto her bathing suit (green, I remember distinctly because it was so disturbing) over her chest (yes, over her breast area)...If I were a liberal, I would be yelling "CHILD MOLESTER!"...But I am not, I see that it was a stupid thing to do, but I am not going to concoct some fabricated intent to display his pedophile tendencies.