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Why Michael Moorer is a FK O
Watched MM on C Rose tonight...seem that his real pet pieve is that "the Media didn't ask the hard questions that could have prevented the USA from going to war."
Ohhhh Pleeze Michael since when is it the Media's job to ask the hard questions....The media never revealed JFK's reckless behavior, never reported that the Maine blew up because of a fire in a coal bunker.....The Media's job is to sell newspapers....and if it bleeds it leads... Have any of you ever watched a larry King or Baba Wawa interview? Pablum folks pure and simple pablum. end of story. Upon reflecting about why the government let those 142 Saudi Royals leave the country... The USA is between a rock and hard place. On one hand the USA is supporting a "Dictatorship/Police State in Saudi, yet to give power to the people is to have a fundlmentalist Muslim go vernment take the placew of the Saudi Royals. It's a case of having bread or ideals for breakfast. Third MM thought Busy looked like a "Deer in the headlights" when he was told of 911. I saw something different in the footage of Bushy on 911. He looked determined, and ANYBODY with as scant of information as was given to him would look confused to... |
Come on Tabs - the Fifth Estate is an essential part of the democratic process. And it has failed the USA miserably in the last coupla years. It is exactly the job of the press to deeply, seriously challenge and question the actions of government, not to play lapdog to the Oval Office in a manner not demonstrated by any body as significant as CNN since WW2.
Watch the news for a few days, any days from both the BBC (or Canada's CBC) and CNN and the differences become obvious. It's exactly the failure of the US press that has given traction to the likes of Micheal Moore. If the press had been more objective up to this point, Moore would just be another cow chewing old cud for crap's sake... |
Re: Bush and his Pet Goat.
Anybody who was Presidential would have gotten up and left the classroom upon hearing the second WTC had been hit. Instead he sat there reading a children's book. Perhaps he was determined to read his first book since entering the White House. We all know he didn't read the newspaper nor any of his briefings. |
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let's say you're a parent at work and you hear that your child is in harms way, you leave work IMMEDIATELY and run to your child to help.... with a little intelligence, you can understand my analogy. |
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What's an FK O? |
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I like Tabs and his posts, but I have to agree with everyone else here. It is the President's job to deal with stuff like attacks on America, and it's not something I want him to do "when he gets around to it" or "when it's convenient." He's supposedly the President of the United States of
America for cryin' out loud. As I've said before, I expect no less than full-on leadership from the person in that position. If we had the right guy in that office, footage of the President's being informed about the most horrific single attack on civilians in probably the history of the world would have been an instructional video on how to be a leader. Of course, the video would be ineffective since you cannot teach leadership. Management, yes. Leadership, no. And yes, it is precisely the job of the media to ask the hard questions and if they were doing their job, MM would not even be interesting, and "government secrets" would be an oxymoron instead of a presidential strategy. |
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I respectfully disagree with your expectations about a President's reaction to tragedy. I have no problem with a leader behaving like a human being. I don't think George's reaction to the news was unreasonable at all. It's what happens later in the cold light of day that matters. |
This idea that the president needs to read the paper to be informed kills me! Doonesberry and Maureen Dowd and the like have been mocking W about this forever. What could a fishwrap possibly contribute to the president's data base? As if the president doesn't have access to intelligence that is over and above what is available to reporters.
I can just picture in my mind W going into a briefing with his advisers and after it's all said and done he says "wait a minute Wolfy and Rummy, I need more information. Let's see what the New York Times has to say about Iraq." How arrogant do the fish hacks have to be to consider themselves part of the decision making process?!? Pathetic. As a source of the pulse of the public, they can't even get that right. Is anyone except the press and the Dems still gripping about the prisoner abuse? Prisoners with bags over their head building a naked pyramid. Humiliating, sure, but it's a long way from torture. The NYT's has run 50 front page stories about that one. They ran over 70 front page stories about the absence of women members at Augusta. WTF? Who picks these stories? Where's an editor when you need one? Craig |
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Reminds me of Clinton getting a hummer in the oval office while Yasser Arafat tapped his toes waiting in the lobby. Yes sir, I like a president who can stay focused. Even if it's the Cat in the Hat. |
I agree.
If I had just gotten a sloppy hummer in the hallway, and then had to look at Yassar and his quivering lip, I would have lost it. I know that is not PC, but to understand terrorism, you have to understand Yassar. Anyone remember the '67 six-day war? |
It's hilarious to see people try to rationalize that dolt sitting in a classroom after being informed "America is under attack."
No man would just sit there. No real leader would just sit there. Only somebody who felt powerless or was unaware that he had a role would just sit there for nearly seven minutes. Anyone else would have gotten up, excused himself, left the room and taken command of the situation, using communication systems that are always with the President when travelling to confer with the Vice President, the Secretary of Defense, the Mayor of New York, the Pentagon, NORAD, the Secretary of transportation, the FBI, the CIA... Any real man would have wanted to be there when the answers started coming in. Would have wanted to formulate a plan of action. If you've ever been in a group where somebody drowned or was injured, you'd have seen the people who have leadership qualities stepping up to take action. Often, they are military-trained. They are always prepared to 'take it personally' and take action. No, that seven minutes of 'deer in the headlights' will lose GWB the election and condemn him to the 'dustbin of history' as an empty-headed fool. |
Bush was told of the 1st plane hitting the WTC(where terrorists had tried to destroy it 8 years earlier) before entering the Florida school but he decides to continue with the photo-op, all the while he was aware of a CIA briefing – “bin Laden determined to attack inside the US” which told of al-Qaida’s plan of using hijacked airplanes in the attack.
Would any reasonable leader, armed with the intel in that CIA briefing, knowing that the same building had been attacked not long ago, even gone ahead with reading with the children? He is incompetent. |
Why leave the classroom?
1. To appear to "take charge", look presidential and reassure the public 2. To make sure that the military is on the job in case these were just two of many These are important. People react positively to positive actions in a crisis situation. The folks on the flight that crashed in Pennsylvania will always be heroes. How many lives did their sacrifice save? |
Then he left the school and invaded two countries, cleaning out a sick theocracy (the taliban) and an even sicker dictatorship (Saddam) in the process.
As incompetent as he is, he still has the world swinging from his nuts right about now. I think the left dislikes Bush more than the right disliked Clinton. Clinton would cave if it looked like the public wanted it a certain way. W flat doesn't give a rat's ass what the public wants. I think the Iron Lady said it best - consensus is the absence of leadership. W's not looking for a worldwide agreement, he's looking to kill as many terrorists as possible. Once again I ask, if he's such an idiot, why can't the left beat him down? From the time he decided to become governor of Texas, he's won at everything he's tried. Ann Richards was the absolute darling of the Democrats and she got worked like an old whore. How did that happen? (easy lefties, i like Ann Richards. She is a great lady who did a lot of good - and bad - for Texas). Al Gore should have won easily, what with the economy and the press behind him, but W turned him into a raving lunatic (you know it's true, algore is a madman). Kerry should be running away with this thing, but everytime he opens his mouth, his poll numbers drop. Prediction, Bush will win, and it wont be close. The polls will show Kerry ahead, but W will win with a 5-10 point margin. Disclaimer, I voted for Jimmy Carter and Ross Perot!! so I don't have a good track record in presidential races. Craig |
While Bush was the Governor of Texas, the leaders of the Taliban came to Houston to meet with executives of the Unocal to discuss the building of a natural gas pipeline from the Caspian Sea, through Afghanistan, to the Gulf of Oman. The drilling contract to supply it was awarded to Halliburton. In the spring of 2001, knowing that they harbored the attacker of the USS Cole and US Embassies in Africa, a Taliban special envoy was invited to Washington by the State Department to help raise their image in America.
You mean that Taliban? |
That's the one I'm talking about. The taliban that is now living in caves on the Pakistani border. I don't think thier special envoy will be visiting the white house any time soon, now that their country has been invaded and most of thier leader killed.
Craig |
What troubles me is that by many accounts, the Bush Administration was preparing to write a $43 million check to the Taliban in May, 2001. for whatever reason, they did not.
My understanding is that the check was to secure permission for the oil/gas pipeline to cross Afghanistan. About that time. John Walker Lindh joined forces that supported the Taliban. Yet he was somehow a 'traitor' joining a group that was friendly to the US. And the Bush Administration has never taken any real heat from the mainstream press for being chummy with the Taliban while they were known to be sheltering OBL. |
Nice tidy dissertation there Craig - I'm with you until the calendar rolls forward to November. Your exceedingly valid argument will then cease to hold water.
GWB is gonna go down - and hard. Virtually any dem ticket could take down W in 2004. All they have to do is show up. That's why the dems have opted for bland and blander as running mates. As you correctly observe, they loose ground everytime Kerry opens his yap. There's no upside for the dems here - all they can possibly do is shoot themselves in the feet. Whereas George long ago commited hari-kari, he just hasn't finished bleeding out yet. For the logical amongst us, our only hope would have been for him to do so before November, 2004. ...then again Ross was my man, too. I just loved those little drawings he made "all by himself". |
There are several things that don't bode well for W. One, he is actually running campaign adds in Texas! He shouldn't have to run ads here! Also, the race was very tight in 2000 and Bush has not energized his base at all. The Dems are charged up, not for Kerry, but against Bush. Also, my parents are actually considering Kerry! They are pretty conservative, but don't like what W and the GOP has done with the spending.
Having said all that I am basing my prediction of a W win on a couple of things. 1) Kerry is liberal who has trouble passing himself off as a moderate. 2) It's hard to win an election when all you have is dislike for another guy - people like voting FOR someone rather than against someone. 3) Bush is the nastiest campaigner I've ever seen. He's more brutal than Clinton. Look how he did McCain in North Carolina in the primary. 4) He's got a boatload of jack to spend 5) I believe the economy will break his way and Iraq will settle down. 6) The left hit the nitrous too soon. They hammered W too hard too early. The prisoner abuse will have long been forgotten, Farenheit 911 will be gathering dust at Blockbuster, the sound bite mentality of Americans will come to grips with the fact that the WMD's have left the country. 7) Hillary wants Kerry to lose so she can give it a try in 2008. Craig |
Edwards wants Kery to lose to....Edwards is in a win win situation. If Kerry loses he will be the man in 2008 to beat for the nomination and if Kerry wins he will be the man to beat in 2012 when Kery leaves office...that is IF there still is a country left.
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Tabs, that is outrageous! That is too sinister to even consider. Although, if that is the case and the Democrats did pick a guy who would sabotage the party for his own selfish purposes, you could legitimately ask Kerry "why the long face?"
Craig |
Who do U think taught Machivelli his trade?
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I don't know how to feel about that quote. Can I stand another 4 years of Bush? No way. I guess one upside of having Edwards on the ticket is that he will make a good Democratic presidential candidate to counter Hilary should Kerry lose in November. Anybody but Bush 2004 Anybody but Hilary 2008 |
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I guess my point is did Bush's inaction result in the loss of more lives? Did his inaction for the minutes create greater chaos in NYC? The fact he did waiver does bother me, but I don't feel he's an idiot. just my opinion, jurgen |
So U all think he waivered.....Take a look at the footage....he set his jaw and his beady eyes narrowed...Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action, in other words U do go off half cocked.
What purpose would his leaving have served, there was nothing he could have done at the moment anyway except caused panic. By sitting there it shows a man in control, and when his people were ready he got up and left.... his actions were very delibrate. Sorry Boyz but U are buying into Fk O's propaganda .... |
Another point I forgot to bring up about Fk O....viewed from the perspective of the Ceo and Chairman of XOM....Fk O is about as informed/knows what really is going on about as much as a cockroach does...and is about as bothersome to the power structure as a fly... So in other words Fk O doesn't know what he is talking about.
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tabs taking the side of a big oil exec - not suprising.
What about before he even entered the classroom when he knew of the first plane? He knew al-Qaida was planning to attack the US using hijacked airplanes, he knew that the WTC had been attacked by terrorists not long ago, and he knew the same building had just been hit by an airplane with massive casualties - but he decided to read a childrens book instead of getting on the horn. To you that "shows a man in control". Unbelievable. |
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You make the presumption that he knew the first plane had hit the WTC...and if he did the first reports were that it was an accident, and the size of plane wasn't known. The second plane left no doubt...like I said watch the footage..he sets his jaw and his eyes grow beady...not wide eyed and glazed over like a deer in the headlights...
Hind sight is always best, remember fog of war obscures whats really going on. Let's spell it out if he had jumped up and left in a hurry the country would have had the perception that things were out of control. If U sit the perception that there is no reason to panic, that things are under control...... |
I'm as amused as Techweenie. I know you guys are proud of Dubya kicking some brown-faced ass and having the world's bad guys quivering in fear, but I could have done that and no, they're not quivering in fear.
But the truly hilarious part is where you explain how the 'deer in the headlights' look is a display of leadership qualities. How taking command at that point would not be the behavior of a leader. Heck, even if he could not reach his partners, even if he would have had to face the cameras with no information, I would have sought the opportunity, if for no other reason than to communicate with the American people, assure them that all that can be done is being done, and helping people to deal with this as a nation. Another golden leadership opportunity squandered. Of course, I would prefer to be comforted by someone who can pronounce words correctly but the fact remains that he left the podium empty. So, I am in the mood for some levity. Let's hear some more about how reading childrens' books is an appropriate activity for a President to pursue while his country is under attack. |
Some points from my experience in military leadership and casualty situations:
1 - The best advice anyone every gave me on dealing with emergencies was "Stop and think." Really -- stop, and think. The instinctive reaction, when presented with an adrenaline rush of an emergency is to leap into some action. What most people don't realize is that most of the time, the instinctive reaction isn't right. In order to minimize stupid mistakes, the best leaders wait just a moment before leaping into action. Heck, even after pausing to clear my mind, I've still done some stupid things .... :) 2 - Leaders who leap into action and make sudden jumpy decisions look terrible. They look panicky. My favorite leaders are the ones who act the same all the time -- when the fit hits the shan, they're calmly holding their coffee and quietly giving orders to the troops. There's no tension in their voice, there's no rush (though there can be a sense of urgency), there's no panic. That action instills confidence in the troops, who proceed to take more carefully thought out and correct actions. 3 - Leadership doesn't have to be in one particular place. If an event happens at my command, I don't have to be physically present to take action, to make decisions, etc. When a casualty happens in the engine room of the ship, the captain doesn't go there -- he goes to the control room. Moreover, he doesn't rush there, because he trusts the people at the scene to take the correct actions. A leader who doesn't trust his people builds poor subordinates. 4 - The Admiral doesn't read newspapers either. He has people who read newspapers for him, then summarize the important points, if necessary. The CNO takes briefings from different people on different topics while he's in the car on the way to work (why do you think he has a driver), while he's walking from his car to his office, etc. Heck, I've known of Admirals who received briefs while they were in the bathroom. So what's my point? Of course W waited a moment. He didn't need to leap into a panicked frenzy sprinting off barking orders. Why would the President, who is incredibly more important than any mere Admiral, read a newspaper, sprint off to New York, or do anything other than stop to ponder the surprising turn of events? Sure, he's made some mistakes, but stopping for a few minutes before taking action on a completely unexpected event was probably not one of them. Dan |
Well I own a few shares of XOM and CVX, and they have done very well by me.
However it doesn't take any genius to see from the perspective of the CEO and Chairman of XOM....I would love to know half the things that boy has in his head about the deals that have gone down. As Chairman of the 2nd largest corporation on Earth and being in the most Strategicily important business on the planet, I would have to rate him as being one of the most powerfull men in the World. Most Powerfull in the World: 1. GW Bush...by default, his advantage is.. he has his finger on the button, and has control of the US Military. 2. Alan Greenspan...Almost a tie with GW, one word from him and the WORLD financial markets go up or down. 3. Hard to delinate...as an indivduals power fluxuiates Blair, Chriac, Schroder, Premier of China... 4. Various Political Leaders in the USA...McCain, Kerry, Biden etc...again it's hard to delinate. Secratary of State, Secratary Defense 5. Various Business leaders...Ceo XOM, Bill Gates, Hank Goldberg (AIG), Warren Buffet.... 6. All the rest of the peons... |
Tabs,
You forgot the "real" President, Chaney. His a** was in a bunker that day,TCB. W is too stupid to run my screen print business, much less our Country. Alan Poh '77 Carrera 3.0 |
Being Prez is a difficult job...on one hand his security is of utmost importance, being the leader that he is. Secondly he can't really go to ground...as he is a moral leader as well and going to ground would not inspire confidence in the system.
Remember boyz 66% of the USA economy is the good ole consumer, and the USA is 50% or greater of the world economy...So if you panic the herd ahhh lemmings..there will be NO ECONOMY....and if there is no economy where does that leave us. There in is the rub boyz. |
as he is a moral leader as well and going to ground would not inspire confidence in the system.
Tabs, You funny SOB! You have a better sense of humor than I thought. Nobody will ever accuse Dubya of Being moral or inspiring confidence. I love your tounge-in cheek humor. Alan Poh '77 Carrera 3.0 |
Dubya maybe a lot of things but by being Prez you aquire a certain moral leadership responsihbility. It is a mantle of responsibility being considered the father figure to the nation. "Man If he ducks and runs for cover, things are done for, cause he knows more about what really gonin on than the Media tells us. "
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