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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I'm right here Tati
Posts: 19,858
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Need to make carb/cis decision on the van! Please help me:)
Ok, they rebuilt the motor and say it keeps fouling the plugs because the CIS needs an input from the absent O2 sensor and is hence running too rich. Does this make sense? Also I suggested installing an O2 in the exhaust and being done with it. They say you can't as it must be in the absent catalytic converter? huh? cant you just put it in the collector pipe? Should I let them install the carb or just take it home and play with it? carb cost is $450 installed. HELP!
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Cornpoppin' Pony Soldier |
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07-23-2004, 07:32 AM
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Too big to fail
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Find another shop, and/or get some internet help.
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"You go to the track with the Porsche you have, not the Porsche you wish you had." '03 E46 M3 '57 356A Various VWs |
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07-23-2004, 07:37 AM
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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I'm right here Tati
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So Thom votes for pick it up as is, I am also leaning that way. Any insight on the O2 sensor issue? Thanks.
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07-23-2004, 07:39 AM
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Friend of Warren
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 16,492
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I'm with Thom. Disconnecting the 02 sensor is a common practice with the SC engine. And you sure as hell don't need the catalytic converter for the 02 sensor even if you don't use it. I backdated my 3.2 to SSI's and the 02 bung is right at the collector and the car runs just fine.
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Kurt V No more Porsches, but a revolving number of motorcycles. |
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07-23-2004, 07:41 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
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Early CIS cars didn't even USE an O2 Sensor!
FIRE them. Carbs are a retrograde step from fuel injection.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) |
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07-23-2004, 07:46 AM
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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I'm right here Tati
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This is an '80 Van. It is a cali van with a none emission CIS motor. I do believe it does have an O2 sensor input to the copmputer as it even has the O2 light on the dash.
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Cornpoppin' Pony Soldier |
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07-23-2004, 07:50 AM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
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The point is that you don't need "closed-loop" to make it run right. With the O2 sensor removed it should be running open loop. In any case, with the collective CIS expertise found here, you shouldn't abandon that system.
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'66 911 #304065 Irischgruen ‘96 993 Carrera 2 Polarsilber '81 R65 Ex-'71 911 PCA C-Stock Club Racer #806 (Sold 5/15/13) Ex-'88 Carrera (Sold 3/29/02) Ex-'91 Carrera 2 Cabriolet (Sold 8/20/04) Ex-'89 944 Turbo S (Sold 8/21/20) |
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07-23-2004, 08:13 AM
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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I'm right here Tati
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It gets better! I just got back from trying to pick it up and get it home. It would barely start and certainly not run. They put new plugs in saying well your mixture is rich so they're probably fouled. Fine just get me outta here. So 20 minutes later it wont turn over, sounds hydrolocked to me, but he moves the flywheel an itty bitty bit and trys again. It rotates slowly(with battery booster pack) and starts........then dies......then starts...........then dies.........you get the idea. I left.
Now what? I paid them $1,900 and it doesn't even run  They were very nice and apologetic, but damn! Anyway I do not get the idea that they know CIS, but the main mechanic was gone so... This licks my spider!
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07-23-2004, 12:39 PM
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Registered
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lendaddy, if the motor flooded and fouled the plugs or in an extreme case, hydrolocked the motor, this is what i would do (or did do, it happened to me). remove all the plugs and turn the motor by hand. (my car belched out raw fuel from cylinder #3.), leave the plugs out to allow things to air out. and clean the plugs. now, take the fuel distributer off, three simple flatblade screw on top. you dont need to disconnect any hoses just yet. my guess with the van, you wont have any screwdriver clearance issues. then pull it up gently and peek underneath. does the plunger move freely? on my car, it was sticky and eventually stuck. this makes the injectors spray like you are on full throttle. if it is stuck, reattach the FD, and start disconnecting the hoses and injector lines, take it to your bench and free that plunger with cussing and carbspray, and other mojo activities. it will seem impossible, but stay with it. i have freed two to date. mine and a friends. keep us posted.
cliff how does it run when started? just for a few seconds and dies? has the mechanics gone over the car for vacumn leaks? personally, it doesnt sound like it is flooding or fouling plugs. CIS cars need richness to start.
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poof! gone |
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07-23-2004, 12:56 PM
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Dept store Quartermaster
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The worst part is the owner is the father of a childhood friend, Doh! So I can't really go off. He seems sincere, but.. He cut me some awesome deals on the parts, again but....
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07-23-2004, 12:57 PM
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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
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Yep, could be a vacuum leak. It won't take any throttle once started and dies either way in maybe 8-10 seconds.
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07-23-2004, 01:02 PM
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,569
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Dude, you're gettin' a Subaru!
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07-23-2004, 01:05 PM
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Registered
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Quote:
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poof! gone |
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07-23-2004, 01:15 PM
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Slumlord
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,983
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Vacuum leak or too lean if it won't take any throttle. Try lifting the air flow plate by hand just a bit after it starts. If that does it you're to lean. Have you checked fuel pressures? ie WUR (rhymes with grrrr for good reason).
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84 Cab - sold! 89 Cab - not quite done 90C4 - winter beater |
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07-23-2004, 01:25 PM
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Dept store Quartermaster
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: I'm right here Tati
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But I don't want a Subaru....
I'm sure it'll get worked out, they always do. It's just a good thing I don't "need" this particular vehicle. You'll have a Subaru and you'll like it mister!
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07-23-2004, 01:55 PM
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